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Unread 11-28-2011, 08:43 PM   #46
WingedScapula
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2009 MK Compass 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Originally Posted by Azzy View Post
Another downside is all the polution that comes from the production... sure, you are purchasing something that gets you further ona gallon of gas, but how much gas did it take to produce? In the long run, and probably for the next decade, its just something that makes people feel good, while the standard wranger ends up being the ultimate financially* and enviromentally responcible choice.
The pollution levels are difficult to quantify and compare directly, particularly since they're different in nature (gas emissions vs. heavy metals, among other things). However, you're talking about pollution from a few sources vs. many sources. It's generally much easier to control pollution and emissions from a few large sources than it is from many smaller sources.

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Originally Posted by Azzy View Post
(*By finacially, I mean the ability to go int he long run and get passed down 2 or more owners is greater, where as in hybrids now and going forward, they have a high cost, incredible battery replacement costs, and possibly never have a new batter to replace with, as welll as software upgrades going forward. Just like it isnt much viable to buy a used PC, it isnt going to be much viable to buy a 10year old electric vehicle, especially for those with limited funds)
The computer to car comparison isn't a very good one... computers became obsolete very quickly in the past, and computers generally require fairly recent software to be of use. A car has a simple purpose - to move. Whether it becomes outdated in terms of software doesn't really mean much aside from possibly taking a hit to resale value; the car is still going to move.

It remains to be seen how the longevity of hybrids and electric vehicles will be.

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Unread 11-30-2011, 11:29 AM   #47
BadAsh74
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2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
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Originally Posted by Azzy View Post
I have to say im not sold on things liek hybrid electrics to be the end-all be-all of efficency. Opposing piston motors, 6 cycle engines and the like get much better effiency, and may get better efficency to the wheels in a hybrid as well, but those pesly batteries get in the way.

If you take out the battereis, you end up with a more fragile and complicated transmission, which may not be suitible for all climates. Motors may only have one physical moving part, but they still have bearings and brushes / contacts and such that can easily get fouled and ruined, just like your altenator.

Another downside is all the polution that comes from the production... sure, you are purchasing something that gets you further ona gallon of gas, but how much gas did it take to produce? In the long run, and probably for the next decade, its just something that makes people feel good, while the standard wranger ends up being the ultimate financially* and enviromentally responcible choice.

(*By finacially, I mean the ability to go int he long run and get passed down 2 or more owners is greater, where as in hybrids now and going forward, they have a high cost, incredible battery replacement costs, and possibly never have a new batter to replace with, as welll as software upgrades going forward. Just like it isnt much viable to buy a used PC, it isnt going to be much viable to buy a 10year old electric vehicle, especially for those with limited funds)
Quoted for truth!


And Scapula makes a great point agains hybrids, without even knowing it: Cars do serve a simple purpose, which is to move. The simplest device is the strongest and most reliable. Having 2 separate drivetrains/powersources to maintain is NOT simple, reliable, efficent or durable. Why do you think that these priuses will be soup cans in a few years, yet WWII era MBs can still run reliably and will keep going long after we're worm food? Provided they are upkept and maintained of course, although Ive seen examples that were literally falling apart from neglect yet still manage to be serviceable.
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