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Unread 08-23-2011, 12:26 PM   #31
BadAsh74
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I'm in the UK right now, for a couple months, while I'm here I had the company rent a Land Rover so I could go into the trail areas. It's a 6cyl diesel, hard top, and I'm getting 30mpg, not too shabby. There is no reason why Jeep can't pull this off, or better.

The LR weighs in at 5500 lbs (auto trans), a Jeep (from their website) comes in at 3785 (auto trans). The LR is longer, and just as boxy as a Wrangler. If the Brits can do it, why can't Jeep?
Government regulations. The diesel liberty sold like hotcakes but the powers that be saw the potential for a lite diesel 4x4 and of course made the emissions standards even more ridiculous. These assclowns wont be happy till everyone is driving an electric pod.

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Unread 08-23-2011, 02:47 PM   #32
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Government regulations. The diesel liberty sold like hotcakes but the powers that be saw the potential for a lite diesel 4x4 and of course made the emissions standards even more ridiculous. These assclowns wont be happy till everyone is driving an electric pod.
Where I'm at diesels get a free ride, no emissions testing.
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Unread 08-27-2011, 02:57 PM   #33
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Where I'm at diesels get a free ride, no emissions testing.
Thats a state law. Im talking the Feds. Look at this urea injection crap that most diesels have to comply with now. You have to purchase some ridiculously expensive additive in addition to fuel, and regular maintenance. The computer wont run without it, and this is yet a whole seperate system that needs its own maintenance and adds to the complexity of already too-complicated rigs. That also adds to the cost of the rig, and yet something else just waiting to go down so you can spend money fixing it.

It doesnt take a genius to know why diesel powered Jeeps are available pretty much everywhere else but here, in spite of overwhelming demand.
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Unread 11-08-2011, 11:41 PM   #34
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What's all this garbage about the batteries? They're not putting cellphone batteries in cars, guys. Look up the data: tests were done on Priuses that were 10 years old, and they found that the batteries were performing just as well as those on brand new vehicles. Sure, I'll bet you can find cases where the battery failed earlier, but the technology is stable. Just because the chemistry is the same doesn't mean that the overall life performance will be the same.

If you don't like the idea of getting better gas mileage without having to sacrifice power, I don't know what to tell you. Think about it a bit more, and you might realize that the reason you're against it isn't very practical.

And if Jeep made a 100% electric vehicle (like the cars put out by Tesla Motors), I'd be all over it.
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Unread 11-09-2011, 02:04 AM   #35
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tecumsa-remember that UK gallons are larger than US gallons.
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Unread 11-10-2011, 02:53 PM   #36
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A lot of cool stuff on this post I like it!

If I may it was said earlier that major construction vehicles and boats have electric engines in them. But consider these vehicles engines are little more protected and have much more amor around their engines and batteries as well then a Jeep would.

Moreover, I read an article about the Nissan Leaf, after about 3 years the battery will only keep about 80% of its charge and continue to diminish. A replacement battery is over $18K. Another note if we were talking about a completely electric engine, how long would it take it recharge to full.

Anyway, the battery technology would have to increase as power storage, amount times to recharge, size and weight and safety measures as well.

The Greenies would love the day that we replace our roof cargo carriers with solar panels lol.
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Unread 11-11-2011, 05:27 PM   #37
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Moreover, I read an article about the Nissan Leaf, after about 3 years the battery will only keep about 80% of its charge and continue to diminish. A replacement battery is over $18K. Another note if we were talking about a completely electric engine, how long would it take it recharge to full.
That's weird, but it seems that there are some differences within the industry. As I wrote before, some group tested 10 year old Priuses and found that the batteries were behaving very, very similarly to how they did with newly manufactured models. Toyota also quoted the cost of battery replacement as being somewhere in the thousands, but I'm pretty sure it was $5,000 or less. That's expensive, but it's way less expensive than $18,000! Not sure what Nissan is up to.

If you want to see a 100% electric vehicle, look at Tesla Motors. They have two models out now, the Roadster and the Model S. They're currently developing an "economy"-type car (code name Blue Star), a crossover SUV (Model X), and if I remember right, a van. Those are some beautiful cars.

The Roadster and high-capacity Model S have a travel range of around 300 miles on a full charge (I believe the official line says 340 miles). They take three hours to reach a full charge, but I'm not sure how long they take to go from, say, low to half charged (which would be a lot faster - the battery "top off," charging past 80% or so, is what tends to take the longest).

So this isn't the type of vehicle you're going to want to take for long interstate travel trips, and until they can develop batteries that you can swap out (or faster charging methods), they may never be. But for regular day-to-day driving, these are very capable cars. It's only going to get better from here, and that's pretty exciting.

And a note for the patriots... Tesla is 100% an American company. Check them out. http://www.teslamotors.com/
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Unread 11-12-2011, 12:17 AM   #38
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"That's weird, but it seems that there are some differences within the industry. As I wrote before, some group tested 10 year old Priuses and found that the batteries were behaving very, very similarly to how they did with newly manufactured models. Toyota also quoted the cost of battery replacement as being somewhere in the thousands, but I'm pretty sure it was $5,000 or less. That's expensive, but it's way less expensive than $18,000! Not sure what Nissan is up to."

When you to talk cost. This includes the Labor whats need to add/remove the battery, and production cost of the battery and since this Nissan's first electric vehicle in the market they don't have the volume Toyota has in this market segment. These are a few reasons why I would think it would cost more than Toyota.



Anyways, I was watching the "News" yesterday I think it was NBC and they were talking about the new Chevy Volts. I don't know if it was from testing or a real life accident but battery blew up and it was pretty serious. It was questioned how safe are these vehicles when they are involve in a collsion or mutli vehicle collsion? Especially for the rescue crews need to pull people out of them. Anyway, GM claims that the volts are very safe to drive LOL. - I say, just make sure you wear rubber gloves when driving them lol!
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Unread 11-13-2011, 06:24 AM   #39
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Anyways, I was watching the "News" yesterday I think it was NBC and they were talking about the new Chevy Volts. I don't know if it was from testing or a real life accident but battery blew up and it was pretty serious. It was questioned how safe are these vehicles when they are involve in a collsion or mutli vehicle collsion? Especially for the rescue crews need to pull people out of them. Anyway, GM claims that the volts are very safe to drive LOL. - I say, just make sure you wear rubber gloves when driving them lol!
As I understand it, they did a crash test with the Volt, and then a few days later it caught fire. I don't think they've determined the cause of the fire yet, but everyone's probably thinking that the battery case was warped and a reaction occurred that caused the fire to break out.

The safety of these vehicles is already proven. The Prius has been around since 1998, and I haven't heard any reports of them being more or less dangerous in accidents. There are other hybrids around now, too; if the Volt has a crappy design, that's GM's issue. And let's face it - with cars today, we have multiple, highly flammable liquids carried around in large quantities. Now people are afraid of batteries as being unsafe?
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Unread 11-13-2011, 11:14 PM   #40
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I was thinking about that too, the difference of having flamable liquids around you vs battery. Can we agree that a battery in most vehicles is located in seperate compartment of the vehicle where passengers and driver is protected by a fire wall?

I had never heard of gas tank involuntarily blowing up, on the other hand, several years ago my Father's car battery blew up in his Altima unexpectedly, it messed up the hood and sprayed acid everywhere. I will say I am not certain how manufactuers place these larger batteries in hybrids nor do I know what kind of sheilding they use to protect driver or passengers and not certain how the batteries are constructed. I do know the batteries are much larger though. It is just some food for thought.

Anyway this post started about Ford Hybrids and I will say I am not definitely not a Ford Fan!!! Recently, they were found guilty of illegally dumping toxic chemicals improperly into a retired mine and allowed other chemical companies to do the same on land they leased in Ringwood, NJ. Ford was sued in a class action suite and plantiffs only won 10 Million $. What went wrong these chemicals seeped into the ground water because they were not properly monitored or disposed correctly. It caused the people around to die of cancers and many of their children that had grown up around the area were found with birth defects. Now Ford is trying to buy the land from the county.
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Unread 11-14-2011, 10:22 AM   #41
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As I understand it, they did a crash test with the Volt, and then a few days later it caught fire. I don't think they've determined the cause of the fire yet, but everyone's probably thinking that the battery case was warped and a reaction occurred that caused the fire to break out.
I think it was three months later. The big questions is why wasn't the battery pack disconnected and removed after the crash test?
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Unread 11-14-2011, 07:23 PM   #42
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I was thinking about that too, the difference of having flamable liquids around you vs battery. Can we agree that a battery in most vehicles is located in seperate compartment of the vehicle where passengers and driver is protected by a fire wall?
Theoretically the battery could be placed anywhere, I guess. With the Prius, the battery was traditionally placed underneath the rear passenger seat (and it might still be - I haven't looked at the designs recently). Supposedly the casing around the battery is pretty heavy-duty and can absorb a lot of force. I don't want to say that it's 100% safe, but Priuses are over a decade old, and I've never heard of a battery leaking or blowing up.

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I had never heard of gas tank involuntarily blowing up, on the other hand, several years ago my Father's car battery blew up in his Altima unexpectedly, it messed up the hood and sprayed acid everywhere.
Wow! I've never heard of a car battery doing something like that. I'm glad

As for your story about Ford's environmental misdeeds, that's very sad. I know a lot of people hate the EPA, particularly because all of those regulations seem to handicap us against competing with China in manufacturing, but land and the health of the people on it is what makes a nation last. Ever looked at China using the satellite view on Google Maps? It's brown, and that isn't a Chinese effort at secrecy - that's their pollution. It's so bad that sometimes, when there are strong winds, it blows over to Los Angeles and causes air advisories over there. China is doing well now, but just wait... I feel really badly for the people there. From the photos I've seen, China used to be a pretty beautiful place, too.

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I think it was three months later. The big questions is why wasn't the battery pack disconnected and removed after the crash test?
Good question. I'd imagine that they do the test and then absent-mindedly stash it in storage somewhere, just in case they need to re-analyze anything.
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Unread 11-14-2011, 07:31 PM   #43
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An electric drive wrangler could be cool. Think of crawling w/ electric power...gobs of low end torque and no burning gas waiting on others or while spotting. When you got to a straight stretch start her up and be on the way. Plus think of the battery power on hand for camping With an inverter you could run stuff for days!

Before I support hybrids battery technology needs to take a leap forward. not necessarily the performance but the methods by which they are created. A prius packed full of batteries made with rare earth metals that were mined in canada isnt exactly green...

A small 4 cylinder diesel electric wrangler would be ****ing sick if the could make the batteries greener, smaller, and more lightweight.
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Unread 11-15-2011, 11:04 AM   #44
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More on the Chevy Volt fire. Apparently the liquid coolant for the battery pack leaked. There is no problem while it is liquid. But the Volt was left outside without the battery being discharged. In the cold weather the coolant crystallized and that shorted the battery.

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_new...1982#c59941982

I guess the government is the only one that doesn't know to remove batteries from junk vehicles. All the salvage yards around here remove batteries.
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Unread 11-26-2011, 07:15 AM   #45
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I have to say im not sold on things liek hybrid electrics to be the end-all be-all of efficency. Opposing piston motors, 6 cycle engines and the like get much better effiency, and may get better efficency to the wheels in a hybrid as well, but those pesly batteries get in the way.

If you take out the battereis, you end up with a more fragile and complicated transmission, which may not be suitible for all climates. Motors may only have one physical moving part, but they still have bearings and brushes / contacts and such that can easily get fouled and ruined, just like your altenator.

Another downside is all the polution that comes from the production... sure, you are purchasing something that gets you further ona gallon of gas, but how much gas did it take to produce? In the long run, and probably for the next decade, its just something that makes people feel good, while the standard wranger ends up being the ultimate financially* and enviromentally responcible choice.

(*By finacially, I mean the ability to go int he long run and get passed down 2 or more owners is greater, where as in hybrids now and going forward, they have a high cost, incredible battery replacement costs, and possibly never have a new batter to replace with, as welll as software upgrades going forward. Just like it isnt much viable to buy a used PC, it isnt going to be much viable to buy a 10year old electric vehicle, especially for those with limited funds)
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