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Diesel in a Wrangler?

7K views 40 replies 23 participants last post by  rosco1 
#1 ·
I have heard for a while that Jeep has considered putting a diesel engine in the wrangler.:drool: It has been done in Europe but will it be done in the U.S???
The only reason why I have heard that it wont be done is because of emmisions. What a horrible reason!!!
Any other plans or ideas?
 
#2 ·
well, emissions damn near killed the big three diesel manufactorers. i think the only one that actually had it in time to meet new standards was d.d. cat and cummins had to borrow technology, no i believe they had to have the gubment make d.d. giv ethem the tech just to make it. i dont know, im not in the loop anymore, but that was the last info i was gettin.
 
#4 ·
I don't think there is any reason for them (I mean I would love one) but as for them producing them the pentastar produces lots of power and gets great fuel economy (so we hear). With the power and economy of the pentastar there won't be enough diesel buyers to make the emissions hit worthwhile.

On a related note same reason we won't see a hemi, good power numbers for pentastar mean no real reson for a HEMI although Chrylser does like to shoe horn them into anything they will fit into so I guess you never know.
 
#5 ·
I really don't think it will happen in this generation of Wrangler. If it happens, 2017 or later would be more likely.

However, Allpar is reporting "Fiat diesels
will eventually power some Chrysler vehicles (possibly including Jeeps currently VM-powered), in export markets; however VM Motori continues to hold sway. The 4.5 Cummins QSB four cylinder is rumored to have high power but again, emissions are an issue for US sale. A Fiat diesel is reportedly being tested by Siemens for US certification in the 2012 Wrangler."

It really all comes down to economics. Chrysler needs money right now, they will do whatever is most profitable. New upcoming CAFE standards mean that average Chrysler MPG ratings need to increase or pay a fine. Hybrids are very expensive to engineer, so diesels could be a quick fix to avoid paying.

If they did go the diesel route, Wranglers would be a good choice since we would be more willing to buy a diesel then a Caravan or Sebring buyer. Of course, it may just be cheaper to pay the fine, or more logical to put a diesel in a higher volume model like the Ram 1500.
 
#6 ·
WOW! You guys sound like you have done your research. I had no idea about any of this. I first started thinking about it when I was watching an international jeep video from Europe somewhere. They were talking about testing out their wrangler. They mentioned that they had a diesel in it and that is how I started to think about it. I have the 4.O I6 and that is an amazing motor in my opinion and I know many others agree. I like the torque ouput on it and it is very dependable. So I know that when (if at all) there came a time to put a diesel in it, it would have to out-do the 4.0. I would definitely be willing to try it out!
 
#8 ·
Low sulfur clean diesel engines are a different animal compared to the old tech.
Visited with my brother in law for Christmas. He works for the Department of Agriculture. He says that farmers are complaining how fuel thirsty new farm equipment is now that they have cleaner burning diesel engines. Many say they can't afford to use new tractors but parts for the older more fuel efficient tractors are getting hard to find.
Sounds like higher food prices and more corporate farms as the individual farmer can't afford to compete.
 
#9 ·
It's not going to happen. The new diesels now require D.E.F. (diesel exhaust fluid) and you have a separate tank you have to fill or else the engine cuts down to 50% power.

This stuff sells for $7.99 gallon at ford dealerships and $3.99 gallon at oreillys. We have a 2011 diesel that requires this and bought two commercial work trucks pre-2011 to avoid this extra cost and system. It adds about $3'000 to a commercial truck.

We are getting s little better fuel economy on the f-450 running the DEF fluid as it runs cleaner.

Most auto parts stores think DEF fluid is some type of joke like blinker fluid until you insist and they look it up.

I don't see this fitting into a jeep as the canisters are pretty big and the extra tank to hold the def fluid, i would love a diesel jeep but our emissions laws are going to prevent it.
 
#10 ·
It's not going to happen. The new diesels now require D.E.F. (diesel exhaust fluid) and you have a separate tank you have to fill or else the engine cuts down to 50% power.

This stuff sells for $7.99 gallon at ford dealerships and $3.99 gallon at oreillys. We have a 2011 diesel that requires this and bought two commercial work trucks pre-2011 to avoid this extra cost and system. It adds about $3'000 to a commercial truck.

We are getting s little better fuel economy on the f-450 running the DEF fluid as it runs cleaner.

Most auto parts stores think DEF fluid is some type of joke like blinker fluid until you insist and they look it up.

I don't see this fitting into a jeep as the canisters are pretty big and the extra tank to hold the def fluid, i would love a diesel jeep but our emissions laws are going to prevent it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Bluetech systems use urea before the exhaust. Also, I think VW passes NOx emissions w/o any urea. Finally, don't count it out for a Jeep because of packaging. A F-450 will require a lot more urea than a Jeep. It's a smaller vehicle with a smaller engine, and can use a smaller canister.
 
#11 ·
From what I understand urea and DEF fluid are the same thing. I would love a diesel Jk and would spend the extra $6-7 it would probably cost.

We have several ford 7.3l with 300,000 plus getting 18+ per gallon. Hated diesels before I started driving them and wife's next suv will have a diesel.
 
#12 ·
From what I understand urea and DEF fluid are the same thing.
Yep, it's just a chemical that reacts and reduces NOx emissions. DEF might be ammonia, I'm not sure. Either way, it's usually injected in the SCR cone.

If it's ammonia:
4NO + 4NH3 + 3O2 → 4N2 + 6H2O

2NO2 + 4NH3 + O2 → 3N2 + 6H2O

NO + NO2 + 2NH3 → 2N2 + 3H2O

otherwise if it's urea:
4NO + 2(NH2)2CO + O2 → 4N2 + 4H2O + 2CO2

So, the NOx is converted to N2 and H20
 
#13 ·
the diesel pee is just a bandaid that the mans. had to use to pass emissions. as soon as something better comes along, def will be gone. its the fuel injection/death of the carburator all over again. only you older gents/gals will remember that. i thinks the gubment is being a little to picky aboot requirements. as for the the corn industry trying to knock down the diesels, why would they? can you not make fuel from corn? the answer is yes. they are already. and they make ethonal too. and to the naysayers who say that wvo or whatever form youre using is bad for the inj. system, well leave it to the motorheads to find a cure. we wouldnt be where we are now if some knucklehead said"hey if i do this, i'll go faster..." dont worry the fuel industry will be getting thiers no matter what the fuel is. diesels put out less dangerous emissions than gas motors. remember, diesel is/was meant to be a fuel, whereas gasoline, also known as benzine in some countries, is a solvent. diesels get their bad rap because back before "clean diesels" all that black smoke disgusted them, and it was all downhill from there. now its these dinks that go around "rollin coal". not all that bad for competitions, but bad for the rest of us.
 
#14 ·
I have owned many diesels, and currently own a 2500HD Duramax truck and a 2010 VW TDI. I am a huge disel fan, and would love to see a diesel option Wrangler. My wifes TDI VW gets 35-50 MPG depending on the type of driving we are doing, and with the turbo it has plenty of power (don't have to put additives in a seperate tank either).

I don't understand why battery hybrids are so popular when you can get a modern turbo diesel to get the same MPG without the problem down the road of having to replace the batteries.

I also could never go back to a gas truck after having diesels the past 13 years. My Duramax tows like a mother, and gets decent mielage as well. Having that torque in a wrangler would be nice.
 
#15 ·
Cummins also makes a diesel, they put it in the RAM, and it doesn't need DEF...by the way, my friends Duramax only need DEF fill up every 5K miles...or so he says...
 
#16 ·
I have not done much research in this but can tell you that urea is a commonly used fertilizer. In dry form it is 46% nitrogen, and is available in liquid form with 32% and 28% nitrogen, mixed with water to create these solutions. I believe the fertilizer is similar to what is being used, but like I said, I have not done much research in it. A quick google search told me that def is prepared by dissolving solid high purity urea in deionized water to create a 32.5% solution.
 
#17 ·
DEF is one route for making cleaner diesels, but it's not the only one.

Right now, Cummins, BMW and Volkswagen/Audi diesels don't use it. Mercedes uses something called 'BlueTec', which is fundamentally the same.

By and large, smaller diesels (3L and less) can be made emissions-ready without using urea injection. It's kind of a shortcut, in that it's easier to take a non-compliant engine and engineer it for urea than it is to design a clean engine from the ground up.
 
#19 ·
sadly i want a diesel so bad that im selling my jeep that i have put alot of work in
some people have done diesel swaps in wranglers but it was ranked as a top overrated engine swao due to the complexity, weight,
http://www.jpmagazine.com/techartic..._10_dumbest_jeep_engine_swaps_ever/index.html
page 4

i was very interested in the jeep grand cherokee CRD diesel but theres not many out there

due to gas mileage and the upcoming fuel spikes i will be going to a duramax
 
#20 ·
The problem with a lot of diesel swaps in Wranglers is that the ones most people use, Cummins 4BTs, are too powerful for a Wrangler and will never get to a good operating temperature, unless you're really hammering it.
 
#22 ·
It will never happen. We can't get a diesel ... anything over here. Just a few overpriced, overcomplicated pickups with a lot of hype behind them.

Big brother's "Green" people division hates diesel. And ruins it too by making it so complicated that none of the companes even want to think about bringing a diesel or a clean diesel over here.

Expecting Chrysler, who only took 4 years to get rid of the anemic 3.8 engine in the wrangler, to put a diesel in? Not going to happen. The only way Fiat would do it is if they could see it strengthening the Jeep name. That's about the only worth Chrysler has today.
 
#23 ·
u would think chrysler,well not sure of fiat's capacity,but you would think they would be developing a hybrid,albeit i'm far from an expert on chrysler concepts,but their the last of the big three who has no current hybrid's in production,hybrid's would probably increase their sales considerably,and leave them room to venture on more unconventional ideas.
 
#27 ·
Because there is VERY little demand. Hybrids may be hyped up by the greenie crowd, but theyre the only ones that buy them. Its such a tiny market and in reality, the cost and complexity dont result in any $$ savings. People that buy trucks and 4x4s want power, capability, longevity, and the ability to upgrade a vehicle. Try doing a lift and bigger tires on a hybrid. It would probably fry the computer trying to compensate for any of this. Oh and forget about any kind of engine mods. Leave the hybrids to Toyota. Hell, even in tree hugger infested Portland, the used car lots are packed full of these things that no one wants.
 
#26 ·
What would be the point of making an efficient, powerful engine that will literally last the lifetime of the owner?
 
#28 ·
Diesel Has its Place in a Jeep

I'm all for diesel... its in my user name! :shhh:

I don't care what the anti-diesel crowd has said in this post, diesel engines are a viable option for the future of America. New diesels are more powerful then they have ever been before. Furthermore, they are clean and the emission systems are rapidly changing to make the system overall more efficient. The torque, the mileage, and the longevity are all pros of a diesel engine. However on the other hand, the weight, the cost, and the platforms these vehicles can fit in are certainly the cons of a diesel platform at this time.

Now with that being said, the 2016 emission standards are going to push the modern automobile into its next phase. All types of engines produced today are going to need to be reinvented or scraped. Diesels put out far less pollutants across the board, minus nitrogen oxide emissions. What is even better is that they can run on biodiesel! You can make biodiesel from numerous food and non-food based sources. From waste veggie oil, to soybeans, and the rapeseed plant. Biodiesel can be made today,tomorrow, and the next day after that... all from renewable resources! Not to mention the future of most second generation fuels will certainly come online within the next decade.

Jeeps are durable vehicles and I'm sure fiat has wranglers equipped with diesels already in them. VM Motori motors (think Jeep Liberty CRD diesel motor company) currently power the European 2011 Grand Cherokee. There is only a matter of time before the vehicles we build in America (sent over with diesels engines) are simply sold in America.

Time will tell but I know it will happen, lets just wait and see. In the meantime, pick up diesel power magazine. There is always articles regarding future diesel motors in American vehicles.

Erik
 
#29 ·
I'm all for diesel... its in my user name! :shhh:

Jeeps are durable vehicles and I'm sure fiat has wranglers equipped with diesels already in them. VM Motori motors (think Jeep Liberty CRD diesel motor company) currently power the European 2011 Grand Cherokee. There is only a matter of time before the vehicles we build in America (sent over with diesels engines) are simply sold in America.

Time will tell but I know it will happen, lets just wait and see. In the meantime, pick up diesel power magazine. There is always articles regarding future diesel motors in American vehicles.

Erik
Well it's a fact that Jeep Diesels are available in Europe, but because of emissions they have yet to be certified here, requiring additional engineering. A diesel in a Wrangler will happen at some point, and I am willing to wait. I have refused to buy a new solely due to the lack of a diesel option. Used and aftermarket has been my solution. The 3.0 CRD in '06 for the GC and Liberty almost made it to the Wrangler, but fell short because of the now well known financial problems of that period that played through to a the bailout and ultimate majority sale to Fiat.

And yes, Diesel Power magazine is a must read for anyone even remotely interested in owning a diesel. While they are mostly full-size truck orientated, the editors have been expanding coverage to more diesel platforms both larger and smaller. I am a dedicated subscriber since the magazine's inception and occasionally send in submissions to their reader rides (My '06 Super Duty LWB Crew made it in a few years ago). Oh and check out the bottom right of page 21 of the Feb 2011 issue titled "New Diesels for Jeeps". It mentions the 2.8L being put into the Wrangler and Wrangler Unlimited, but "Only outside of North America".

Let's go Fiat, get a Diesel Wrangler for North America already!. It's long overdue!
 
#30 ·
Here in France, the 2.8VM diesel is the common motor in the Wrangler (fuel consumption is better), the V6 model is much more expensive (and higher consumption ) and could only be buy in JEEP dealer on special purchase order . Generally in Europe (except Switzerland) price of gasoline (for V6) is also more expensive than fuel due to the fact that nearly European trucks have diesel. More the torque is much better in the diesel than in V6.
But in 2014 all European Diesel in new cars must be much cleaner (specially regarding Nox) i think we will have similar emissions as in US therefore JEEP will have to put a much cleaner Diesel in JEEP models or a much better V6 ( lower consumption).
I assume that FIAT will put in JEEP a cleaner Diesel in this case they will certainly be able to pass also American emissions ;). I hope it will be a reliable diesel :eek:.
 
#34 ·
Exactly! I knew that diesels in Europe would level out to the North American standard. They have the same fuel its only a matter of time before they retool over there and makes diesels with the same emission standards. Ether way, I do see a diesel Jeep or two with in the next three to five years. No one better to do it then a joint Euro-American company. We have the tools and the talent, now we need to know the time in which it will be done.

Erik
 
#31 ·
I hope so too. I just looked at teh Jeep page for France through Google Translate and indeed see the specs. Here they are as the translations presented them:

"The new turbo diesel common-rail 2.8-liter (Euro V) to filter particles from the New Wrangler develops 200 bhp DIN, with a torque of 410 Nm (BVM) - 460 Nm (BVA). It is associated with a manual 6-speed on all finishes and has the Stop & Start system. A new sequential automatic transmission 5 speed is optional on Sahara and Rubicon finishes. The new engine offers all the power and all the torque needed to drive all-new engine allows terrain.Ce New Wrangler and Wrangler Unlimited to benefit from a reduction in CO2 emissions and lower fuel consumption (by example: consumption combined (l/100km) Wrangler 2.8 CRD FAP manual gearbox: 8.1)".
 
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