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Unread 10-17-2013, 03:51 PM   #586
dmill89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepsman View Post
Doubt there is enough demand to warrant the time, effort, and money to produce a "gas guzzling deathtrap". Companies aren't trying to play those risky games to please the very few diehard loyal customers they have. They are trying to appeal to the masses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by starscream
The market already has. CAFE standards didn't kill the Hummer, $4 per gallon gas did. No one is looking to repeat that failure.
Obviously the "gas guzzling deathtrap" was an extreme example to make a point and such a vehicle probably wouldn't sell that well (it might if it were cheap enough though). That being said the point is that the market and car buyers should decide what gets built not the Government.

How many people actually care how many MPG (within reason) their vehicle gets enough that they would pay significantly more, or sacrifice reliability, performance, practicality, or utility to get a few extra MPG?

How many people would actually pay thousands more for a slightly safer vehicle (do vehicles really need 10 airbags?)?

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Unread 10-17-2013, 06:13 PM   #587
barnettd
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Here is my business model for keeping a Jeep Wrangler type vehicle alive (boxy, solid axle, tinker-able) in the face of the Gov-ment regulators...

Dissolve Jeep as a separate brand and move all the models under Dodge. If you go into Dodge and ask for a Jeep... they will point at a JK Wrangler and say "let me show you that last true hard core 4x4 on the planet".
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Unread 10-17-2013, 06:31 PM   #588
rebelbowtie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnettd
Here is my business model for keeping a Jeep Wrangler type vehicle alive (boxy, solid axle, tinker-able) in the face of the Gov-ment regulators...

Dissolve Jeep as a separate brand and move all the models under Dodge. If you go into Dodge and ask for a Jeep... they will point at a JK Wrangler and say "let me show you that last true hard core 4x4 on the planet".
Not going to work, Dodge is all passenger cars now. That is why Ram is its own brand.
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Unread 10-17-2013, 07:18 PM   #589
dmill89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnettd View Post
Dissolve Jeep as a separate brand and move all the models under Dodge. If you go into Dodge and ask for a Jeep... they will point at a JK Wrangler and say "let me show you that last true hard core 4x4 on the planet".
It wouldn't make a difference as far as regulations go. CAFE stands for "Corporate Average Fuel Economy" i.e. average fuel economy of all Chrysler Group LLC vehicles, not for a specific brand. Unfortunately for Chrysler most of its best selling models are also its least fuel efficient (Rams, Grand Cherokees, Wranglers, 300s/Chargers).
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Unread 10-17-2013, 11:24 PM   #590
macklamar
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Here's the thing with "the people choosing what gets built", they obviously do. But main stream manufacturers build what the majority of people will buy. They can't afford to do otherwise.

There are independent production companies that build cars for people. Check out the Hauk line of vehicles, specifically the 'rock raider' or the 'river raider'. If you want it enough, you can buy anything. But it doesn't pay to mass produce these vehicles, which is why you don't see them on show room floors.
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Unread 10-18-2013, 10:22 AM   #591
starscream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmill89 View Post
Obviously the "gas guzzling deathtrap" was an extreme example to make a point and such a vehicle probably wouldn't sell that well (it might if it were cheap enough though). That being said the point is that the market and car buyers should decide what gets built not the Government.

How many people actually care how many MPG (within reason) their vehicle gets enough that they would pay significantly more, or sacrifice reliability, performance, practicality, or utility to get a few extra MPG?

How many people would actually pay thousands more for a slightly safer vehicle (do vehicles really need 10 airbags?)?
LOL, MPG and safety were the top two considerations I used when buying our family car. It's a 2012 Grand Cherokee. The 5 star crash rating was probably the biggest factor (we have a toddler), and we went with the Pentastar over the Hemi for MPG.

But for the masses, there are surveys that ask buyers exactly what matters to them most. Take this NADA survey for example:

http://www.nadaguides.com/MediaRoom/...--truck-buyers

The #1 most important thing to buyers of both passenger cars and SUVs/trucks is fuel economy. For cars, safety is tied at #3. For SUVs/trucks, safety is also the #3 most important thing.

The answers to both your questions are probably a lot more than you think there are.
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Unread 10-23-2013, 12:09 PM   #592
jay-h
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FWIW Allpar weighs in "Cherokee is not Dart "

http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php...rokee-not-dart
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