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FS: 2007-2013 Jeep Wrangler "HALO" Angel Eye KitFS: Wranger BRIGHT License Plate LED! Just $3! Great valueBlack Friday SALE! Up to 20% off at Diode Dynamics!

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Unread 05-01-2012, 10:31 PM   #31
Marauder_Pilot
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The thing is, you can still do the vast majority of repairs in your garage. The idea that you have to work with an ECU or something every time you fix a car is...well, false.

Is it as easy? No. And it takes a little more training now. But anybody committed to wrenching in their own driveways still can.

And, statistically, you have a much lower chance of actually needing to do any in-driveway repairs now anyways.

As for your 41-MPG Super Beetle...probably true. But the new Dodge Dart will do the same thing, but it'll also seat four comfortably with a large trunk, accelerate faster than continental drift (I've driven Super Beetles, there are a lot of words I'd use to describe them and fast is the absolute last) and give you a decent chance to survive in a collision.

A modern car is 13% cheaper to maintain now compared to 1997, and will last longer than any vehicle in history

Your CJ-7 is definitely easier to work on than your JK. But your JK won't need to be worked on as often in the first place.

There are many cars on the road today will go their entire lives without needing anything but brake pads, tires and fan belts-parts that you can easily fix in your garage (Having just done all of the above on an '04 Honda Civic and an '02 Toyota Tundra last weekend).

__________________
"Buying a Jeep for on-road handling is like downloading porn to savor the cinematography."
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| ARB/Old Man Emu | Northridge 4x4 Canada | Warn | Modern Classic Enterprises | American Expeditionary Vehicles | GenRight | Poison Spyder | OR-FAB | Metalcloak | East CoastGear Supply | JKS | M.O.R.E. |

2000 Jeep Wrangler TJ Sport-OME HD Lift, ProComp bumper, 32" BFG TA K/Os
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Unread 05-02-2012, 07:05 AM   #32
TheHuntsman
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2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Frankfort, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder_Pilot View Post
The thing is, you can still do the vast majority of repairs in your garage. The idea that you have to work with an ECU or something every time you fix a car is...well, false.

Is it as easy? No. And it takes a little more training now. But anybody committed to wrenching in their own driveways still can.

And, statistically, you have a much lower chance of actually needing to do any in-driveway repairs now anyways.

As for your 41-MPG Super Beetle...probably true. But the new Dodge Dart will do the same thing, but it'll also seat four comfortably with a large trunk, accelerate faster than continental drift (I've driven Super Beetles, there are a lot of words I'd use to describe them and fast is the absolute last) and give you a decent chance to survive in a collision.

A modern car is 13% cheaper to maintain now compared to 1997, and will last longer than any vehicle in history

Your CJ-7 is definitely easier to work on than your JK. But your JK won't need to be worked on as often in the first place.

There are many cars on the road today will go their entire lives without needing anything but brake pads, tires and fan belts-parts that you can easily fix in your garage (Having just done all of the above on an '04 Honda Civic and an '02 Toyota Tundra last weekend).
That's funny. I just traded in a Chevy HHR to get my JK that needed front end work every year from the first year I got it to the last. Now luckily the first five years were under warranty, I paid it off in 4 years and that last year and few months I had it I spent wishing I had traded it the day it was paid off. It just had a coil spring crap out and that was the last straw. I went back and checked the receipts. It was EVERY YEAR. Almost a grand a year in front end repairs. In a two year span it needed the same parts replaced twice. Do you know what the GM service manager's response was? "Do you drive down any steep hills? If so, you shouldn't do that." Yeah, progress.

My girl used to work at a Ford dealer as their parts order clerk/service cashier. You can believe all the industry and government propaganda you like, but I've owned cars that range in year from 1967 to 2012, and both my girl's professional experience and my personal experience say the only thing you have right is that older cars were easier to work on. Can you imagine buying a car that had chronic front end and suspension failure from the day it was new in 1967, hell, in 1987?

Of course these articles are going to tell you that all this computerized management is good for your vehicle, and that it's "for your own good". I'm sure it's also a coincidence that vehicles the vast majority of the time suffer serious problems just after their warranty runs out.

I can give you a list of vehicles I owned that got over 100k miles put on them, by me, without needing anywhere near the maintenance that my girl saw on a daily basis from the late model offerings in the 3 years she worked at that shop, or with my 07 HHR, or 01 Taurus. Anywhere from my 79 Thunderbird to a crappy little 92 Cavalier.

You can site all the articles you want from industry sources, but the reality that they now sell "repair insurance" is pretty damn telling. Jmo, of course.
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Unread 05-05-2012, 11:49 PM   #33
spottedfrog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder_Pilot View Post
The thing is, you can still do the vast majority of repairs in your garage. The idea that you have to work with an ECU or something every time you fix a car is...well, false.

Is it as easy? No. And it takes a little more training now. But anybody committed to wrenching in their own driveways still can.

And, statistically, you have a much lower chance of actually needing to do any in-driveway repairs now anyways.

As for your 41-MPG Super Beetle...probably true. But the new Dodge Dart will do the same thing, but it'll also seat four comfortably with a large trunk, accelerate faster than continental drift (I've driven Super Beetles, there are a lot of words I'd use to describe them and fast is the absolute last) and give you a decent chance to survive in a collision.

A modern car is 13% cheaper to maintain now compared to 1997, and will last longer than any vehicle in history

Your CJ-7 is definitely easier to work on than your JK. But your JK won't need to be worked on as often in the first place.

There are many cars on the road today will go their entire lives without needing anything but brake pads, tires and fan belts-parts that you can easily fix in your garage (Having just done all of the above on an '04 Honda Civic and an '02 Toyota Tundra last weekend).
Say that in 30 years and we'll see how many of todays modern cars are still on the road. Fact of the matter is modern cars are designed to be replaced every couple of years.
Had a similar experience with a '05 Chevy owned since new, as TheHuntsman. ended up costing more in repairs (I did my self!) than the payments.
We replaced it with a Mazda3, witch I don't expect to last as long as my RX7 FB that I abused the crap out of.
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Unread 05-08-2012, 11:56 AM   #34
beber
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I'm 30 years old, and got my first car when I was 17 in 1998. At that time my friends and I were all driving around ~10 year old cars from the late 80s and early 90s. They were complete pieces of garbage. If a car got much over 100k then it was a miricle.

Today my wife drives an 8 year old civic with no issues, and I drive a 7 year old WK. In general cars are so much more reliable, and live longer lifes than they ever did before.
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Unread 05-08-2012, 12:16 PM   #35
rdrainville
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I have a 95 Yj with 150k and a 04 trail blazer with 80k in the trail blazer I have destroyed a differential and transmission one was repaired under warranty the other happened out of warranty the Yj everything works great the only thing that broke was a u joint from taking it out on a trail I also had an 88 bronco that had 170 thousand miles on it and nothing wrong with it my dad has an 07 hundai with 70k he started developing steering issues and until it was fixed the car wouldn't hold an alignment cars today are not as reliable as older cars are
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Unread 05-08-2012, 12:44 PM   #36
Marauder_Pilot
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I'll take statistics over poorly-spelled anecdotes any day, personally.
__________________
"Buying a Jeep for on-road handling is like downloading porn to savor the cinematography."
-TTAC

| ARB/Old Man Emu | Northridge 4x4 Canada | Warn | Modern Classic Enterprises | American Expeditionary Vehicles | GenRight | Poison Spyder | OR-FAB | Metalcloak | East CoastGear Supply | JKS | M.O.R.E. |

2000 Jeep Wrangler TJ Sport-OME HD Lift, ProComp bumper, 32" BFG TA K/Os
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Unread 05-08-2012, 01:09 PM   #37
rdrainville
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Statistics from car manufacturers... When you were 17 did you take proper care of the car your saying isn't as reliable did you buy it from some one who took care of it? No you got a pos because that's all you could afford at the time company's build cars cheaply with flimsy materials to cut cost the engines don't run as long the transmissions aren't as strong the auto makers have started claiming you can drive 5-7k before needing an oil change with there new technology when really they want you to drive around with sludge to lubricate your engine so it fails sooner the fluids they use for transmissions almost have no lubricating property cars like most everything else we buy now are designed to fail so that you need to buy a new one and just pump more money back into a system of corrupt auto manufactures trying to max profits from the consumer think about if you have a car that can go forever with out any major problems then how is the manufacturer of that car going to make any money? But if you buy a car and drive it for a couple years and then all of a sudden something like your transmission fails and you either need to pay for a whole bunch of dealer specific parts or buy a whole new car then the auto company that built that car is going to make a lot more money cars today can not run nearly as many miles as cars from the past could ya sure there more fuel efficient you have a nice plush interior but you don't need it
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Unread 05-08-2012, 02:47 PM   #38
TheHuntsman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder_Pilot View Post
I'll take statistics over poorly-spelled anecdotes any day, personally.
Consider the source. If I was going to sell you a product, any product. Which over time due to rising labor costs, inflation, government regulation, and a desire to continually increase my profit margin required me to either raise my prices until I was priced out of the market, or simply produce a substandard product and trade on the good name that had been built in the past. What do you think I'd pick? Go out of business? Not likely.

Now, if I was to release statistics to show that the product I was selling you was substandard in comparison to the product I had previously been selling you I'd be a damned fool. If I or the media who covered my industry were to release findings that the end result of these government mandates have been a driving source of both the rise in price, and the decline in quality of the product what do you think the end result would be? An IRS audit? A visit from the EPA? or OSHA?

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Unread 05-08-2012, 07:13 PM   #39
Rob K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beber View Post
I'm 30 years old, and got my first car when I was 17 in 1998. At that time my friends and I were all driving around ~10 year old cars from the late 80s and early 90s. They were complete pieces of garbage. If a car got much over 100k then it was a miricle.

Today my wife drives an 8 year old civic with no issues, and I drive a 7 year old WK. In general cars are so much more reliable, and live longer lifes than they ever did before.

My experience has been different. My vehicles from the 80's and 90's have run well over 200k with not too many problems. Mostly just normal wear. They were still running good when I sold them due to being tired of dealing with rust. I should have washed the salt off more often. One thing that really fires me up is that most new vehicles have galvanized bodies. That's going to add some longevity to the body.
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Unread 07-11-2012, 04:45 PM   #40
funkduck
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Maybe I'm unique in this, but the last vehicle I had before the 2002 Overland I own now was a 2001 ZR2 Blazer. 2 doors, body on frame...

And way, way better than the 02 WJ. I'd go back in a heartbeat. I like the WJ a lot, but I could sleep in the back of the ZR2, its seat folding arrangement was awesome, it handled better on-road, and worked a lot better on Arizona's 4x4 trails despite its IFS and open front differential.

I don't have a special attachment to BOF construction and I'm fine with technology - but I do like 2 door vehicles, and DEFINITELY like vehicles I can sleep (flat) in. Saves me a fortune in hotel rooms on long journeys and makes spontaneous campouts effortless.

I don't like needless luxuries like digital multi zone climate control... ever notice there's more than one company selling aftermarket fixes for grand cherokee climate control failure? None of the directly actuated knobs in previous cars ever failed. You know what would be luxurious for me in a climate control system? Having a seriously powerful fan and never breaking ever.
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