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Unread 04-22-2012, 06:23 PM   #1
tmo1984
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2013+ models

Is anyone else that Jeep is going in the wrong direction in terms of body style? Based off the "spy" reports of the new Patriot/Liberty, it looks like Jeep is turning these into roadsters instead of trucks (that's if you believe the pictures are an accurate representation of the new model).

I hope these pictures are nothing more than prototypes because if the new generation of Jeep start to look like CR-Vs and RAV4s and even now the ugly 2013 Escapes, I think they will lose some customers.

Thoughts?

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Unread 04-22-2012, 07:40 PM   #2
spottedfrog
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Yup Jeep is supposed to stand for History, Heritage and strength.
They are sort of like the Harley Davidson of 4 wheels, (but more reliable).

every one else is going car based, if jeep went truck based again they'd corner the market on people who buy because the actually want a UTILITY vehicle instead of a mini van with SUV style.

I think they need to narrow down the offerings, beef up the strength/ capability, and go back to a very classic look.

I also think they need to shrink the Wrangler back down to TJ/YJ/CJ size. Keep the 4 door but re-badge it as the rescue. I'd also like to see some thing in the spirit of the C101 Commando.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 09:19 PM   #3
Poncherello
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^ Agreed. When I was the dealership recently the dealer was talking about owners of Lexus, Rovers, Benzs were buying the new GC's because they are more refined. What he didn't mention was that the real reason of this was probably because of the economy lol. $38-$40K vs $40-$80k.

The problem as you refine the line to become more someone else, you have a good chance of losing the customer you have already marketed too. If Jeep wants to keep their current customers and bring in new ones, develop bigger variety between models and packages, and not just use stupid stickers, paint, rims and DVD- Navigation.

For example, look at the renegade packagefor the Lib, if you were to add wrangler transfer case, 2" Lift, and a brush guard and larger tires, locking differential, sway bar removal - bang your done. In the meantime, you can still produce models with more surburban /urban comforts which they currently do maybe bring new people who prefer them.

What's sad now is that Jeep has arguably the off-road market but the way its going they may be losing it.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 10:14 PM   #4
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The thing is, you look at how many Cherokees, Wranglers, CJs are on the road as compared to other vehicles of the same vintage and you see a pattern.
It's not that they haven't needed that many fewer repairs that their piers, its that they were so good at what they did, endeared them self to their owners to a degree that there really wasn't a replacement worth buying.

And there is some thing to be said for simplicity. With all the c#@p that manufactures are putting in cars these days trying to make them living rooms on wheels, I don't think I will ever buy another new vehicle. Consumer report will never understand.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 11:16 PM   #5
Marauder_Pilot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo1984 View Post
Is anyone else that Jeep is going in the wrong direction in terms of body style? Based off the "spy" reports of the new Patriot/Liberty, it looks like Jeep is turning these into roadsters instead of trucks (that's if you believe the pictures are an accurate representation of the new model).
They're not. The bodies on the Liberty mules are just chopped up Alfa Romeo bodies just so there's something on the platform. They bear absolutely zero resemblance to the final product.

The thing is, there's no market for truck-based SUVs any more. The Wrangler is the best-selling vehicle in that segment, by a significant margin. There's plenty of options remaining in the segment-GM still offers the Yukon/Tahoe and Suburban/Yukon XL, Ford still offers the Expedition/Expedition XL, Nissan still sells the X-Terra and so forth. Sales of all of them are straight down the crapper. The Suburban/Tahoe are propped up a little bit by fleet sales, but even there the new SSV Durango is taking sales already.

Meanwhile, sales of the new 'softer' Grand Cherokee and the newly car-based Explorer are better than they have been in years.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 11:29 PM   #6
spottedfrog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder_Pilot View Post
The thing is, there's no market for truck-based SUVs any more. The Wrangler is the best-selling vehicle in that segment, by a significant margin. There's plenty of options remaining in the segment-GM still offers the Yukon/Tahoe and Suburban/Yukon XL, Ford still offers the Expedition/Expedition XL, Nissan still sells the X-Terra and so forth. Sales of all of them are straight down the crapper. The Suburban/Tahoe are propped up a little bit by fleet sales, but even there the new SSV Durango is taking sales already.
The thing is there are no SMALL truck based SUV any more and I think there is a market.
The Yukon/Tahoe, Suburban/Yukon XL, Expedition/Expedition XL, and X-Terra are all large, even the Wrangler is large now. The 2 door is comparable to a full size Bronco and the 4 door is just huge!
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Unread 04-23-2012, 03:18 AM   #7
trw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spottedfrog View Post
The thing is there are no SMALL truck based SUV any more and I think there is a market.
The Yukon/Tahoe, Suburban/Yukon XL, Expedition/Expedition XL, and X-Terra are all large, even the Wrangler is large now. The 2 door is comparable to a full size Bronco and the 4 door is just huge!
a little exaggerated, no? My friend bought a 91 Bronco and my JK was not as big as it was, not even close. The width of the wheelbase, maybe.

The reason there are no small truck based SUVs is because the market died out for them. The Cherokee proved you dont need a truck based SUV to have something rugged, just something well built.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 08:58 AM   #8
rdrainville
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It would be cool if they had an optional srt8 option on a rubicon platform as well as a shortened wheelbase model and if they brought the xj back so that they would have a rugged suv that's plenty capable but a bit more comfy then the wrangler
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Unread 04-23-2012, 10:14 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spottedfrog View Post
The thing is there are no SMALL truck based SUV any more and I think there is a market.
The X-Terra is the same size as the Liberty, maybe a little smaller. There's also the 4Runner, too-and its sales are rapidly being taken away by the much nicer, unitbody Grand Cherokee.

Fun fact: Jeep has never made a mid-size BOF SUV. The old SJs were, by the standards of the day, huge. Modern ones would be the same size as the Suburban.

The last small, BOF SUV that comes to mind is the S10 Blazer/Jimmy, two unadulterated pieces of garbage. They ride OK, but the handling is terrible, the fuel economy is even worse, they tow horrible and had a surprisingly useless cargo area.

Here's the thing. The attributes people like in BOF SUVs-towing capacity, durability, ride quality, ect-do NOT scale into a small vehicle. Small BOF SUVs died off before they had a chance to really exist-that segment jumped right into unibody/unitbody, for good reason-the few that did make it out sucked.

You can't make a vehicle like the Cherokee any more. Safety regulations won't allow it. The current Patriot is almost dimensionally identical to the Cherokee, and it sits in the small end of the compact SUV segment. There are no car platforms to hold it. Look at all the BOF SUVs based on midsize truck platforms-the X-Terra (Frontier) and 4Runner and FJ Cruiser (Tacoma) are all firmly in the mid-size category. The old Explorer (Ranger) was there as well. The rumoured possibly-not-for-North-America BOF Chevy Trailblazer based on the next-gen Chevy Colorado is as well.

If you want a midsize BOF SUV, buy a 4Runner or wait and see if the possibility of a wagon-bodied version of the JK Unlimited comes with the next generation.

There isn't a market. Not unless you and 149,999 other friends are willing to slap down money every year for one. (The minimum number of annual sales to make a brand new non-specialty platform profitable)
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Unread 04-23-2012, 11:18 AM   #10
spottedfrog
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Some Small Med./Small SUVs that worked or were ok:
Suzuki Samurai, Ford Bronco II, Toyota FJ40, Scout 800,Scout II, Classic Bronco, any Jeep CJ,YJ,TJ., Jeep Commando. Jeep XJ, Land Rover Defender 90.
Some of the above start to get a little longer but the over all dimensions are more compact.
I know the JK 2 door isn't as long as a Full size bronco bet in every other dimension it's got to be close. I'm not saying I hate it but its not the same thing that it was. The liberty as it comes is in the spirit of the XJ but they need to work on capability from the factory.
I actually steered my brother in the direction of an Xtera because he was looking for a NEW small/Med truck based SUV.
I know Gov regs would limit this But come on they allow Smart cars, 50CC scooters and other junk on the road.

Edit: some how the XJ got into my list, Its a pretty robust Uni body though. And I think the Bronco II is very top heavy has really sensitive steering and the V6 is too peaky, but ti did ok and had a good following. I liked the Toyota before they went IFS too.
I guess I'm a little passionate on this subject. I just really want some one to make some thing new I like more than some thing 10 years old or older.
I won't dump in this thread any more so that others can post their opinions.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 12:53 PM   #11
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OK, I'll address those vehicle-by-vehicle:

Samauri: Exited US market after sales disappeared. Still sold in foreign markets, but will not meet US safety regulations.

Bronco II: Evolved into the Explorer, and sold infinitely better. Then sales declined and the Explorer went unibody. Also would never meet modern safety or NVH standards.

Toyota FJ-40: Left US market after unable to compete with the Jeep CJ, and hasn't been made in decades. Closest we'll ever get to it today is either the FJ Cruiser or the Wrangler. Go buy one of those. And as someone who's driven one, they're actually pretty big. Almost the same dimensions as a JK.

Scout: Couldn't compete with the CJ, and also much bigger than you think. Again, would not meet modern crash or NVH standards.

Bronco: No market for 2-door SUVs any more.

CJ/YJ/TJ: JK sells better than any of them. 'Nuff said.

Commando: 2WD.

Defender 90: Doesn't meet US crash regulations, plummeting demand means that it will be replaced by a unibody replacement for MY2015.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 01:17 PM   #12
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Why would the xj not be able to pass current safety regulations?
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Unread 04-23-2012, 01:46 PM   #13
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Not enough airbags, crumple zones aren't sufficient, evasive handling isn't sufficient, crush protection isn't sufficient, bumpers don't meet pedestrian safety regulations, ect.

Additionally, it wouldn't pass NVH regulation either.
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Unread 04-24-2012, 01:27 AM   #14
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Don't want to go off on a tangent with this thread, but there is some new information on all-par on the 3.2 motor. I know the 3.6 has been out, have there been any issues and/or recalls on them yet?
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Unread 04-24-2012, 08:33 AM   #15
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Nothing in particular, no trends at least. A few here and there with lifter or crankshaft noise, but it's rare and covered under warranty. Just the usual little bugs that pop up on any completely new design.
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| ARB/Old Man Emu | Northridge 4x4 Canada | Warn | Modern Classic Enterprises | American Expeditionary Vehicles | GenRight | Poison Spyder | OR-FAB | Metalcloak | East CoastGear Supply | JKS | M.O.R.E. |

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