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Unread 11-21-2010, 06:47 PM   #16
WJ Freak
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Anyone discussing the financial strength of Jeep in the market needs to read this month's JP Magazine. The editors discuss the decisions made by Jeep over the years, from Daimler to Fiat as owners. The bottom line is, the Jeep brand has been watered down with the Patriot and Compass, which has cut sales by a third since about 2000. When it was just the TJ Wrangler, XJ Cherokee and WJ Grand Cherokee, Jeep sales were at their highest. When the KJ Liberty (still Cherokee outside the U.S.) replaced the XJ, sales took a minor hit, but it wasn't until the addition of the Patriot and Compass, and then the replacement Liberty, which was a re-badged Nitro, that Jeep slumped to it's lowest sales in decades.

Was it a good idea to expand the brand? I think so, but they should have been smarter about it. They should never have gone the direction they did with the way the products turned out. Why do we need two different small Jeeps based on the same platform? If the idea was to make a rally-type Jeep that looked more like the concept and had 4WD components so that it could compete directly with Subaru, then THAT would have been a great Jeep addition. If the Patriot would have been larger and a replacement for the Liberty, re-badged as the Cherokee (in the U.S. again), built on the JK Wrangler Unlimited platform, then THAT would have been a great Jeep to have in the lineup.

Here's my ideal Jeep lineup:

1) Grand Cherokee - 2 Versions, 1 with 4WIS, like it is, and 1 with 2 live axles and MOPAR lift.

2) Cherokee - built on the JK Unlimited platform

3) Comanche - built on J8 military platform and resembling the Nukizer 715 Concept.

4) Wrangler - keep the basics of the platform, except for swapping the 3.8L V6 for the new 3.6L Pentastar V6, the addition of the 5.7L or 6.2L, or both, Hemi options and an optional CRD in the U.S., with the addition of the MOPAR lift on the Rubicon.

5) Gladiator/Scrambler - pick-up version of the Wrangler built on the J8 military platform.

6) Compass - a potential rally racer, resembling the concept more, built on the Liberty platform to compete with the Subaru Outback.

That's a Jeep line-up that would remain true to the Jeep heritage, while expanding the brand so as to not water it down. The only problem would be deciding which one to buy! Wouldn't that be a nice problem for Jeep...?



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Unread 11-21-2010, 09:03 PM   #17
BadAsh74
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WJ Freak, you just about covered it with your ideal lineup. The only thing I would say is that the Compass looks a LOT better with this new grille. If Jeep wants to at least have something to offer to the CUV crowd, Im ok with it, but lets do it properly. The fwd based drivetrain is ok, but make the awd setup standard, give it the current patriot's dual range gearbox. Manual trannys across the board, and you are RIGHT on the money in terms of taking this thing rallying. Thats every bit as much offroading as mudding, rock crawling, desert running or anything else. Now that theres no more Caliber SRT-4, I say beef up the awd setup to handle the 300 hp and slap it in there for a Rally Compass. Maybe a low pressure turbo lite option like the PT cruiser had for the dual range 4wd versions for a Jeep thats a bit more soft core than the 'real' ones but that will outperform any other CUV off the pavement.

BTW, I like how you made room for BOTH a Wrangler based pickup and the Nukizer. But Id say the Nukizer should be based on a 1/2 ton solid axle Ram platform and traditionalized a bit. Then it would be a unique rig offering a little something that Ram doesnt while being a more solid work rig than the Wrangler based offering. But at least one of them needs a SUT option like a H1 Hummer, Avalanche or SporTrac.
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Unread 11-21-2010, 09:22 PM   #18
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The J/10-20 have been gone since 1988 and the mini truck MJ/Comanche has been gone since 1992, The full sized jeep has been gone since 1991 . . .

2 thing's your not going to see from Jeep EVER is:
1. a Full size rig SUV/Pickup.

2. a Pickup period.

Don't matter what you read heard or saw . . . those 2 things just aren't in jeep's future


Now i'm not sure in your areas but the Jeeps that share the Chrysler plate form's ? seem to be out numbering the Chrysler's at this time . . . The liberty out numbers the nitro around my local area at about 15-17 to 1 same with the caliber compass tho that is more of a 30-50 to 1 ratio

If this is true world wide then the more Jeep's Cryco can stuff on their plate forms the better for the company in general, It would be interesting to see if a jeep on a RAM chassie would have the same effect ?

IE J/1500 - J/5500


Mike
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Unread 11-22-2010, 01:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadAsh74 View Post
WJ Freak, you just about covered it with your ideal lineup. The only thing I would say is that the Compass looks a LOT better with this new grille. If Jeep wants to at least have something to offer to the CUV crowd, Im ok with it, but lets do it properly. The fwd based drivetrain is ok, but make the awd setup standard, give it the current patriot's dual range gearbox. Manual trannys across the board, and you are RIGHT on the money in terms of taking this thing rallying. Thats every bit as much offroading as mudding, rock crawling, desert running or anything else. Now that theres no more Caliber SRT-4, I say beef up the awd setup to handle the 300 hp and slap it in there for a Rally Compass. Maybe a low pressure turbo lite option like the PT cruiser had for the dual range 4wd versions for a Jeep thats a bit more soft core than the 'real' ones but that will outperform any other CUV off the pavement.

BTW, I like how you made room for BOTH a Wrangler based pickup and the Nukizer. But Id say the Nukizer should be based on a 1/2 ton solid axle Ram platform and traditionalized a bit. Then it would be a unique rig offering a little something that Ram doesnt while being a more solid work rig than the Wrangler based offering. But at least one of them needs a SUT option like a H1 Hummer, Avalanche or SporTrac.
Yeah, I agree the face-lifted Compass, resembling the new Grand, looks A LOT better. It's just too bad it doesn't look more unique, like the concept. Now it's a little like when GM had Hummer and made the H2 and H3, with an HX (or H4) in the works. Each one was just a smaller version of the same look. Not a bad thing, but also not unique.

I was back-and-forth on the underpinnings for the Camanche/Nukizer. I would love and prefer to see the Ram Power Wagon platform used, but I was guessing what Fiat/Ram/Jeep would actually do, with the most cost effectiveness. At this point, I just don't see them making a full-size, gas-gulping Jeep. I don't care how they do it, though, I just really think they should make the Nukizer! I'd actually love to see a new Cherokee with those design cues, along with a Comanche. They need to drop the Liberty name and bring back the iconic Cherokee moniker. If it's good enough over-seas...
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Unread 11-22-2010, 01:14 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMCSportTruck View Post
The J/10-20 have been gone since 1988 and the mini truck MJ/Comanche has been gone since 1992, The full sized jeep has been gone since 1991 . . .

2 thing's your not going to see from Jeep EVER is:
1. a Full size rig SUV/Pickup.

2. a Pickup period.

Don't matter what you read heard or saw . . . those 2 things just aren't in jeep's future


Now i'm not sure in your areas but the Jeeps that share the Chrysler plate form's ? seem to be out numbering the Chrysler's at this time . . . The liberty out numbers the nitro around my local area at about 15-17 to 1 same with the caliber compass tho that is more of a 30-50 to 1 ratio

If this is true world wide then the more Jeep's Cryco can stuff on their plate forms the better for the company in general, It would be interesting to see if a jeep on a RAM chassie would have the same effect ?

IE J/1500 - J/5500


Mike
Well, here in Phoenix, it's the opposite. I see more Calibers than Compasses or Patriots. In fact, it's pretty rare to see a Patriot at all. I see about the same amount of Nitros and Liberties. But it doesn't matter what I see or think the numbers should be, the fact remains that the Compass and Patriot have hurt Jeep sales, since their introductions. I was fully believing they were doing a good job of expanding the brand, until I read the article in JP Magazine. They said a lot of things I had been surmising for some time.
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Unread 11-22-2010, 05:14 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00WJGC View Post
those of you arguing the Wrangler & other Jeep's are changing too much must want the Jeep to die.

if the new Wrangler was a stripped down 4wheeler sales would nose dive.

in the end it's a business & they have to cater to the masses
Finally... an intelligent comment. Though I don't think some of these 'Jeepers' care.

*sigh* I can't wait for another 5 years to go by when the current 'incapable' line-up is doing the same things that the past Jeeps are doing, and is replaced with even newer 'less capable' Vehicles, lmao - Only so we can see the same crappy comments like "oh the new Jeeps suck", or "oh, there not as capable" , or my personal favorite "my older than 1984 piece of crap is a real Jeep" blablabla - all over again.

Personally, buying a vehicle that can walk right off the lot, can rock crawl, and do w/e takes all of the fun out of the experience.. IMO.

and for the comments directly above, Jeep is CARRYING Chrysler and Dodge.

back to my coffee.
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Unread 11-22-2010, 08:39 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ Freak View Post
Anyone discussing the financial strength of Jeep in the market needs to read this month's JP Magazine. The editors discuss the decisions made by Jeep over the years, from Daimler to Fiat as owners. The bottom line is, the Jeep brand has been watered down with the Patriot and Compass, which has cut sales by a third since about 2000. When it was just the TJ Wrangler, XJ Cherokee and WJ Grand Cherokee, Jeep sales were at their highest. When the KJ Liberty (still Cherokee outside the U.S.) replaced the XJ, sales took a minor hit, but it wasn't until the addition of the Patriot and Compass, and then the replacement Liberty, which was a re-badged Nitro, that Jeep slumped to it's lowest sales in decades.
So basically Jeep sales were at their highest when SUV's were extremely popular and fuel was cheap. Jeep sales went down when SUV's sales fell due to higher fuel cost. I really don't like the Compass, but Jeep sales did not fall due to them. In other words its a coincidence.
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Unread 11-22-2010, 09:00 AM   #23
AJeepZJ
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Originally Posted by Jordon83 View Post
So basically Jeep sales were at their highest when SUV's were extremely popular and fuel was cheap. Jeep sales went down when SUV's sales fell due to higher fuel cost. I really don't like the Compass, but Jeep sales did not fall due to them. In other words its a coincidence.
NOT entirely... The Jeep sales were highest when SUV's were extremely popular AND there wasn't much competition. The best competition then was Ford, GM/Chevy, Toyota, and maybe a Land Rover here and their. Now EVERYONE offers an 'S.U.V.'
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Unread 11-22-2010, 01:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Carolina_WK View Post
NOT entirely... The Jeep sales were highest when SUV's were extremely popular AND there wasn't much competition. The best competition then was Ford, GM/Chevy, Toyota, and maybe a Land Rover here and their. Now EVERYONE offers an 'S.U.V.'
Exactly. A lot more has changed since Jeep's 3-vehicle lineup of the '90s than just fuel costs. There are a TON more options now, between cross-overs and numerous SUV offerings in multiple sizes from just about every manufacturer. And if fuel efficiency played a role, wouldn't the more fuel efficient Compass and Patriot have brought more sales and balanced out the decline in the rest of the lineup? There is no evidence to support a "coincidence," but there is support for JP Magazine's analysis of what has gone on with the Jeep brand. In today's market, there is plenty of analysis of consumer trends and brand impact, so I'm sure JP Magazine didn't come up with their conclusions on a whim. Jordan83, read the article, then do some internet research on Jeep sales and market trends. I think you'll see it was more than a coincidence.
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Unread 11-23-2010, 09:42 AM   #25
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While "everyone" has an SUV to sell statement is true the best selling Jeep is the one that has stayed closest to Jeep roots, the Wrangler. The XJ, ZJ and WJ were also close to the Jeep roots. Now the Liberty, Grand, Patriot and Compass aren't that much different than what can be found from any other manufacturer. Jeep, by changing into what the competition was offering has become lost in the shuffle.
Let's say a person is looking for a metal roof SUV. He would really like to have solid axles, manually shifted transfer case, full gauges, rear amber turn signals, etc. All things that were found on the XJ, ZJ and WJ. But can't be found anymore in a Jeep vehicle. So the person has to settle for a vehicle that isn't what he wants. So what is keeping him from looking outside of Jeep? Nothing. So he shops around and sales go elsewhere.
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Unread 11-23-2010, 04:39 PM   #26
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That's the thing about opinions. They're just like @$$holes.

Anyways, really Jeep needs to get back to core. The Grand as their 'full sized' flagship. Some form of smaller SUV, and a 2 and 4 door wrangler. Then maybe throw the Nukizer 715 Concept as a pickup. Having a gladiator/scrambler on top would only dilute the "truck" concept.

But what Jeep *really* needs to do is to release a stripped down wrangler based on the J8 with Rubi running gear for under 20 grand. Something that real jeepers can start modifying out of the box with as few creature comforts as possible. This would be something intended to live the hard life of the work Jeeps of the post WWII era.
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Unread 11-30-2010, 10:03 PM   #27
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New clear Pics from Branda Priddy via LeftLaneNews.com

Okay, this thing is better but still pretty ugly...or maybe homely is the right word...







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Unread 12-07-2010, 06:31 PM   #28
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IMO it's not worthy of the Jeep name unless someone has a 5.5" lift to get 35" tires on it. If Chrysler wants something between the Grand and Wrangler... bring back the XJ ... nuff said.

Chrysler has enough other brands/cars for soccer moms.
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Unread 12-07-2010, 06:42 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00WJGC View Post
those of you arguing the Wrangler & other Jeep's are changing too much must want the Jeep to die.

if the new Wrangler was a stripped down 4wheeler sales would nose dive.

in the end it's a business & they have to cater to the masses
SO TRUE! If ... your building a generic product you want it to appeal to the masses...


However, the Jeep name wasn't always as vanilla as it is now. I guess the people who filled the niche market when Jeep meant; adventurous, different, capable... wish it didn't turn down the sad "cater to the masses" road.
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Unread 12-20-2010, 06:21 AM   #30
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Good read! Great pics

First Drive: 2011 Jeep Compass — Autoblog
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