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Unread 12-17-2012, 05:46 PM   #1
Project1
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Where is the TPS ground too.

Among the other codes I keep putting out, I have been consistently putting out TPS high volts, and occasionally tps low volts. With this I do get the usual symptoms.

The sensor is good. It has been changed twice with a mopar sensor and test well. I have went though the wiring many times. The clock spring and the air bag are disconnected.

I'm posting because when I'm going though the wiring, I want to make sure I'm checking everything. I feel like it's a bad ground wire somewhere, so my question, exactly which grounds should I be checking.

Thank you very much for any help

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Unread 12-17-2012, 06:08 PM   #2
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I Have been reading about this ... I found this, looks like a good tip from: cruiser54 on cherokeeforum http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/how-...ircuit-111985/

says:
"My rule of thumb when checking these is to have teh key on when checking voltage, key off when checking resistance.
Your sensor ground circuit is a little high. Less than 1 ohm is what you want.
To simplify the general grounding issues with these Jeeps I do the following:

Add a #4 cable from the firewall ground point to the rearmost bolt of the fuel injection rail.
Add a #4 cable from the dipstick tube stud over to the passenger side inner fender. There is an 8mm stud almost directly below theupper shock mounting point.
Add a #6 cable from the negative battery terminal to one of the 10mm headed bolts on the radiator support.
Be sure to clean all connections to bare metal in the process."

I think I may add a few ground wires but I still cant figure out exactly which ground directly effects the TPS
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Unread 12-17-2012, 08:01 PM   #3
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I have had so many problems with the tps .. I think I my just run a separate ground strait from the tps to the fire wall. Is that something I can do? would running a separate ground help me fix or rule out a problem with a ground?
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Unread 12-17-2012, 08:13 PM   #4
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So .. you can see from this diagram where the tps is grounded to the transmission.

1.Can I just reground the D3 Ground from the tps, to the transmission strait to the fire wall?

2. Is that the only place the TPS is ground too (given the clock spring and airbag are disconnected)
tcu_to_test.jpg  
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Unread 12-17-2012, 09:51 PM   #5
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see this diagram is for a zj & tj (but those are so close to xj's) and it shows that their is a "ground to other sensors" .. IDK ..err
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Unread 12-18-2012, 07:22 AM   #6
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Cruiser54's data is good but it pertains to RENIX XJ's. You need data that applies to you '98 OBDII XJ.

Trash those diagrams you posted. They don't pertain to your XJ. I've included the TPS diagram and some connector pinouts for you below.

As you cn see in the diagram the TPS is grounded at the PCM, connector C1. As you can see in the diagram the Intake Air Sensor and the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor are spliced into the TPS ground, at splice S114, and get their PCM ground at the same PCM pin, A4. Splice S111 picks up the Right Speed Control Switch (cruise control) after it passes through the Clockspring. If there is a problem with the ground circuit between splice S114 and PCM connector C1, you would have IAT and ECT issues.

Diconnect the battery negative (-) post connector for the following test:

You can disconnect PCM connector C1 and the TPS connector, and using an Ohmmeter, read between pin socket A4 of PCM connector C1 and pin socket 1of the TPS connector. The resistance should be less than .5 Ohms. If this wire/circuit is okay, I don't think you have a TPS 'ground' problem.

Please post the actual codes you see so additional troubleshooting assistance can ge given.





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Last edited by CCKen; 12-18-2012 at 08:48 AM.. Reason: deleted reference to sensor return
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Unread 12-18-2012, 01:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCKen View Post
Cruiser54's data is good but it pertains to RENIX XJ's. You need data that applies to you '98 OBDII XJ.

Trash those diagrams you posted. They don't pertain to your XJ. I've included the TPS diagram and some connector pinouts for you below.

As you cn see in the diagram the TPS is grounded at the PCM, connector C1. As you can see in the diagram the Intake Air Sensor and the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor are spliced into the TPS ground, at splice S114, and get their PCM ground at the same PCM pin, A4. Splice S111 picks up the Right Speed Control Switch (cruise control) after it passes through the Clockspring. If there is a problem with the ground circuit between splice S114 and PCM connector C1, you would have IAT and ECT issues.

Diconnect the battery negative (-) post connector for the following test:

You can disconnect PCM connector C1 and the TPS connector, and using an Ohmmeter, read between pin socket A4 of PCM connector C1 and pin socket 1of the TPS connector. The resistance should be less than .5 Ohms. If this wire/circuit is okay, I don't think you have a TPS 'ground' problem.

Please post the actual codes you see so additional troubleshooting assistance can ge given.
Best reply ever! For some reason I could not find that diagram, and your advice is awesome. Thanks again CCKen!

I'm getting codes for the tps & the Intake Air Sensor and the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor.

Here are the codes I keep putting out:

P0113- intake air temp high volt

P0118- engine coolant high volt

P0123- tps high volt

P0122- tps low volt

P0121- tps signal

P0455- evap leak

P0705- transmission range sensor a circuit low input. ( just cleaned my nss after I saw this code)
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Unread 12-18-2012, 01:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Project1 View Post
Best reply ever! For some reason I could not find that diagram, and your advice is awesome. Thanks again CCKen!

I'm getting codes for the tps & the Intake Air Sensor and the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor.

Here are the codes I keep putting out:

P0113- intake air temp high volt

P0118- engine coolant high volt

P0123- tps high volt

P0122- tps low volt

P0121- tps signal

P0455- evap leak

P0705- transmission range sensor a circuit low input. ( just cleaned my nss after I saw this code)
You're in a world of hurt brother. Looks like your PCM doesn't know whether to chit or go blind.

You said in a previous post that the clockspring and air bag are disconnected. Why and how did you disconnect the clockspring? (think you're smart don't you...CS can cause this chit )

Other than P0445, the circuits that are being affected are shown in that TPS diagram above. I think you need to establish what the reference voltage to these sensors is (are). It should represent the PCM reference voltage at the IAT, and ECT sensors as well. Using the TPS as a typical sensor, detach the TPS connector (you'll be looking at the connector as shown in the TPS pinout above). Using your Digital VOM, select 20 VDC on your meter. Key to RUN, engine off, touch pin socket 3 with + probe and - probe to battery negative post. You should see around 5 VDC. If the voltage is higher that, lets say, 5.9 volts, you have battery voltage leaking into the PCM reference voltage circuit.

Try this and get back.

Tell me about the clockspring.
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Unread 12-18-2012, 02:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCKen View Post
You're in a world of hurt brother. Looks like your PCM doesn't know whether to chit or go blind.

You said in a previous post that the clockspring and air bag are disconnected. Why and how did you disconnect the clockspring? (think you're smart don't you...CS can cause this chit )

Other than P0445, the circuits that are being affected are shown in that TPS diagram above. I think you need to establish what the reference voltage to these sensors is (are). It should represent the PCM reference voltage at the IAT, and ECT sensors as well. Using the TPS as a typical sensor, detach the TPS connector (you'll be looking at the connector as shown in the TPS pinout above). Using your Digital VOM, select 20 VDC on your meter. Key to RUN, engine off, touch pin socket 3 with + probe and - probe to battery negative post. You should see around 5 VDC. If the voltage is higher that, lets say, 5.9 volts, you have battery voltage leaking into the PCM reference voltage circuit.

Try this and get back.

Tell me about the clockspring.

Ha I'm tryin here brother lol ... You crack me up.

Yea ...I was having this problem, which I thought was the tps and the airbag light would come on and off ... So I thought clock spring and disconnected the clock spring and airbag in the steering column.

I rebuilt the engine about a year ago, and in the process I changed all the sensors with mopar sensors. I brought the tps back and traded it for a new one. At the time I did the engine rebuild I was having a like problem. And I was before the rebuild, but I was having a lot of other problems too.

I work as a medic when I'm home, ad I'm on duty until Friday ( I know gay ) so it will be a few days until I can get out there and test, which I can't wait to do, I would loooooove to solve this problem.

So what happens if it test well vs. not well .... What would happen next in either case
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Unread 12-20-2012, 03:28 AM   #10
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So help me understand this. Is S114 & S111 points were the wire is grounded? And if so were would these grounds be located?

I guess my plan if the pcm does not test well is to check the grounds. I have gone though the wires very well, and everything has been cleaned.

the pcm may be bad, that may be the case.
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Unread 12-20-2012, 06:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Project1 View Post
So help me understand this. Is S114 & S111 points were the wire is grounded? And if so were would these grounds be located?

I guess my plan if the pcm does not test well is to check the grounds. I have gone though the wires very well, and everything has been cleaned.

the pcm may be bad, that may be the case.
S114 and S111 are wire splices in one of the engine bay wire harnesses. All the wires spliced at these splices are grounded at the PCM, connector C1 (Black), pin A4.

Edit: Clear all your CEL codes with a code reader or a scanner, then do the following:

Remove the air filter box,

Have all circuits connected,

Turn ignition key to RUN (engine off),

Wiggle the wire harness that goes to the PCM connector C1 at the PCM and the wire harness that exits the wire harness manifold above the fuel injectors, wiggle the entire harness from the manifold to the PCM, and see if the CEL comes on again. If so, record the codes.

All the CEL Codes you posted, except P0455, have associated circuits that go through PCM connector C1 (Black). Did you ever have this PCM connector detached from the PCM at any time?

Now that you say you have P0113 and P0118, and you want to check the resistance of the sensor(s) ground wire, you would need to disconnect the IAT and ECT sensors connectors, as well as the TPS connector, before doing the test I outlined above.

P0113, P0118, and P0123 will pop up when the connector(s) from the TPS, IAT, or ECT are disconnected from the respective sensors with the ignition key in RUN position, indicating an open circuit.

Remove the battery negative (-) connector before doing the following:

There could be a problem with the C1 PCM connector pin sockets or PCM C1 pins. Maybe you should first determine if C1 is secure on the PCM, then remove the connector from the PCM and examine the pins in the PCM connector for corrosion or being bent to one side and the pin sockets in the C1 harness connector for corrosion and the pin sockets being pushed back. Flush out the C1 connector with CRC Electronics Cleaner before reconnecting.
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Unread 12-20-2012, 02:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCKen View Post

There could be a problem with the C1 PCM connector pin sockets or PCM C1 pins. Maybe you should first determine if C1 is secure on the PCM, then remove the connector from the PCM and examine the pins in the PCM connector for corrosion or being bent to one side and the pin sockets in the C1 harness connector for corrosion and the pin sockets being pushed back. Flush out the C1 connector with CRC Electronics Cleaner before reconnecting.
I just did this last week when I went through every wire I could find. I cleaned and checked every connection including cleaning the nss. I does run a little better, but still looses all idle at a stop and shuts off if you don't keep you foot on the gas, and at idle and while driving the rpms bounce around even when the throttle is held constant. I did not find any visible problems with the pins or connector, however one of the plastic clips that holds the connectors in was damaged, so I just put zip ties around the PCM and connectors to insure they were in there well.
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Unread 02-03-2013, 10:24 AM   #13
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Just a follow up .. I got a new PCM and the jeeps running perfect, which is awesome. Thank you very much ... and Good Eye CCKen... Thanks man
image-3364747838.jpg  
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