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Unread 09-11-2007, 06:04 PM   #1
se7vn
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Timing Chain Replacement

Yet another thread on Timing Chains, but none of them are geared towards an XJ (That I could find). Here's the list of symptoms:

Idles at about 300rpms then jumps back and forth from 500rpms to 300rpms while idle, randomly quits at stoplights unless I keep it at 1000rpms(Which I do all the time since I don't know when it'll stall)
Lack Of Power
Backfires at the Air Intake
Stumbles under acceleration
Idles pretty damn rough.............

I'm at about 148,000 miles now, I hear that you should replace the chain and gears at about 150,000 Miles. Before I spend this weekend in the garage, do you all think this sounds like the problem? I've replaced every sensor and tested everything electrical including the damn horn!!! lol Thanks Guys......


BTW Do any of you know of a good source for instructions on doing this? I have the Haynes manual but, it usually does as much good to me as looking for directions in the classifieds.......

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Unread 09-11-2007, 06:12 PM   #2
boredcherokee4l
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Here you go:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/timing-chain-179k-pics-460596/

Hope this is some help. Good Luck!!!
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Unread 09-11-2007, 08:12 PM   #3
AZ Jeff
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I am kinda doubting it's your timing chain, as they typically last a LOT longer than 150K miles.

Here is quick test you can do:

1. Mark a several spots on the Harmonic Balancer on it's rim, and find a convenient spot on the timng cover to put a mark as well. (Whiite chalk works well for this.)
2. Start the engine, and put a timing light on #1 spark plug wire. Now shine it on the marks on the HB. If the marks hold constant, you probably do NOT have excessive lash in the timiing chain. IF they dance around and move back and forth, then chain investigation is warranted.
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Unread 09-11-2007, 09:56 PM   #4
se7vn
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What if I just loosen the serp. belt and move the Harmonic Balancer Nut on the pulley with a wrench to see if it has play in it?
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Unread 09-12-2007, 06:57 AM   #5
XJING
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Quote:
Originally Posted by se7vn
What if I just loosen the serp. belt and move the Harmonic Balancer Nut on the pulley with a wrench to see if it has play in it?
That MIGHT tell you that your Harmonic Balancer is good or comming apart.. Cus you will be looking at it But wont help you with the timing chain.... AZ Jeff gave you the best, easiest way to check it...(BTW Lots of people have over 250,000 on the OEM chains... I have way over... she still purrs so I dont sweat it)

I think you should check and re-check your TPS..and the C 101 connector... Famous for this on the Renix XJ... If you dont have it... Heres Lunghds reference page... been an A$$ saver for me for years....
http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/...iagnostics.htm
Good Luck
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Yes, probably, I dont know. I could but sometimes it was difficult. Just get under there and try.
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Unread 09-12-2007, 07:14 AM   #6
tangofox007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by se7vn
What if I just loosen the serp. belt and move the Harmonic Balancer Nut on the pulley with a wrench to see if it has play in it?
I don't think that would provide any useable information.

I am presently in the middle of a timing chain replacement. I got the timing cover off yesterday. My chain had 3/8" side-to-side movement. (1/2" or less is supposedly within limits.) So I am probably fixing something that really wasn't broke.

I am at 148k miles, also. I had previously had the erratic idle rpm/stalling/hesitation problem. A new TPS pretty much fixed it. Although it will stall on rare occasion after extended idle operations.
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Unread 09-12-2007, 09:05 AM   #7
XJH-007
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Chain upgrade conclusion:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=460596

Du EET Tango....you won't be dissapointed..........



BTW- AZJEFF's method of determining chain slop will let you know if your chian is WAY WAY WAY out of specs. The JEEP MANUAL stated if more than 1/8" of side play can be measures the chain is bad. That's not enough to visually see in a harmonic/timing light method.....

Another way to test the slop is to take the cap off your distributor and slowly rotate the crank with a wrench. If the crank turns before the dist...you have a worn chain.

Yes, many chain have well over 250K on them....doesn't mean they are performing at thier best. Valve timing is fractions of a second which translates to fractions of a degree in cam rotation...any slop will work against you.

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Unread 09-12-2007, 11:31 AM   #8
tangofox007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XJH-007
The JEEP MANUAL stated if more than 1/8" of side play can be measures the chain is bad.
I noticed that my Chilton's manual says 13mm or 1/8 inch. Thing is, 13mm is slightly over 1/2 inch. I found a couple of other sources that listed 1/2" as the limit. Also, the Cloyes Gear web site says that 1/8" total deflection is normal for a new chain installation.

http://www.cloyes.com/Aftermarket/Te...7/Default.aspx

Click "How tight should my timing chain be." Obviously, this is not an engine-specific specification.
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Unread 09-12-2007, 12:14 PM   #9
se7vn
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Well nevermind about checking the Timing Chain, I got under the engine just now and right at the timing chain cover at idle I hear it really really rubbing on the cover and when I have someone rev the engine it gets louder and faster, so I know it's got a lot of play in it....Thanks guys
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Unread 09-12-2007, 02:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangofox007
I noticed that my Chilton's manual says 13mm or 1/8 inch. Thing is, 13mm is slightly over 1/2 inch. I found a couple of other sources that listed 1/2" as the limit. Also, the Cloyes Gear web site says that 1/8" total deflection is normal for a new chain installation.

http://www.cloyes.com/Aftermarket/Te...7/Default.aspx

Click "How tight should my timing chain be." Obviously, this is not an engine-specific specification.

HAHA crazy.........maybe that's why JEEP never put anything on the moon.

If I had to guess I would think they meant 1/8" is normal and 1/2" or more is worn....

My new setup had hardly any deflection at all.......
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Unread 09-12-2007, 02:25 PM   #11
se7vn
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XJH-007 How's it running by the way? Pretty noticable difference in performance?
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Unread 09-12-2007, 02:27 PM   #12
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I'm not much for spending $400 for 2.5 HP gains.....and this $50 mod was F'n awesome....

The XJ feels like it did 5 years ago...........Much more Zippy, low end torque increase was phenominal, power accross the entire band.

I even gave my keys to the wife and just told her to go drive it and tell me if she noticed any "strange noises" (I didn't tell her about the power increase to make sure I wasn't yankin my own chain)

She came back and said a sentence that warmed my heart, "Well, I don't know what sound you're talking about, but this thing feels twice as fast now"


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Unread 09-12-2007, 03:19 PM   #13
se7vn
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LOL good to hear man, nice job!
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Unread 09-12-2007, 03:29 PM   #14
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Make real sure it's not the harmonic balancer rubbing the timing cover. If the balancer is bad it can walk back and rub the timing cover.
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Unread 09-12-2007, 04:02 PM   #15
tangofox007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by se7vn
Well nevermind about checking the Timing Chain, I got under the engine just now and right at the timing chain cover at idle I hear it really really rubbing on the cover and when I have someone rev the engine it gets louder and faster, so I know it's got a lot of play in it....Thanks guys
There is a rubber damper along the lower side of the timing cover which should make it difficult for metal-to-metal contact to occur. (My damper showed that a slight bit of chain contact had occurred.)

The chain would likely have the aluminum cover for lunch if it was hitting it.
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