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Unread 05-25-2015, 08:59 PM   #1
kycherokee1239
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2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 72
Stalling /No Start problems.

Working on a 2000 4.0L. Sport. 84K miles.

I hate when I start throwing parts at a problem without a real insight to what the problem is but that is where I now find myself. A few days ago the heep starting "stumbling" while running. Not a miss but rather more like the engine was turned off and back on. There was not a pattern to it that I could tell. It became progressively worse as it became a true stall but would restart. It then quit one day and would not restart. In reading here and other forums the crankshaft position sensor seem the likely suspect. Before it quit that I went to autozone to try to get a code but none were found.

I replaced the CKPS. with a factory sensor.

The truck ran better but would occasionally still have a stumble. Tonight it again quit and would not restart. My son went to AZ. and brought me a camshaft position sensor. Installed and at first no start but then it did and I managed to get home. In driving home. Same behavior and its is more pronounced at highway speeds. ( 55 +)

Suggestions ?

Thanks for any help any can give.

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Unread 05-26-2015, 04:51 AM   #2
peelman
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pick up a loaner fuel pressure tester. You may not have sufficient fuel pressure on demand. I believe you should have 49psi +- 5 if i'm not mistaken. Glad your not throwing parts at it, good luck!.
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Unread 05-26-2015, 05:07 AM   #3
CJ7-Tim
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Test the fuel pressure. Have the battery Load Tested, clean up and snug the battery cables, and the engine block ground connection.

Read this -> http://jeep.blackonyx.net/pdfs/jcss.pdf
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Unread 05-27-2015, 12:52 PM   #4
groverjay87
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Sounds similar to a problem i just had with my 99 xj. I couldn't get it to start all of a sudden and it was sporadic before this if it would start or not. It ended up being a bad coil. 35 bucks at napa. Its a good place to start. I had no spark from coil to cap but had good spark from cap to ground. Replaced it and started right up. My old one had a bunch of cracks on it but beware it is a pain to get out you need to take the bracket off to get coil out and i snapped the bolt mounting coil to bracket so get some new bolts while your at napa. good luck!

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/i...start-3212145/
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Unread 05-27-2015, 12:55 PM   #5
jonsnw93
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I would see if you could find an ignition scope to look at your firing pattern
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Unread 06-05-2015, 05:05 PM   #6
kycherokee1239
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Well I know it has been a few days but I wanted to follow-up and let folks know where. I am.

First I want to thank everyone that has offered their advise.

I did check the fuel pressure at the rail and it was spot on 49#s.

I cleaned and reattached the 3 grounds in the engine compartment and cleaned and reattached the positive cable and also had the battery load tested. (It is less than 1 year old.

None of this cured my problem.

I took it to a shop I more or less trust and just received their diagnoses. The mechanic believes it is a bad instrument cluster. He said that if the ECM loses communication with the cluster it will stop running. They found the problem when while idling they saw ( I guess on a scope) the loss of communication. He said that it did not surprise him that the "stumble" or the intermittent non-start was intermittent. This was late in the day and I do not have a price quote but it does not sound cheap.

I welcome members thoughts and suggestions
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Unread 06-05-2015, 05:24 PM   #7
CJ7-Tim
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It is the other way around, the instrument cluster issue is a symptom of the problem, not the cause.

What did the shop have to say about adjusting the camshaft synchronizer with or without a toothpick as detailed in the link provided above ? Since 2000-01 has the coil on sparkplug distributor-less ignition, you have to look at the cam synch and the coil rail.
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Total US debt has increased by 70% under Obama, from $10.625 trillion on January 21, 2009 to $18.005 trillion January 1, 2015.

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Originally Posted by Ronald W. Reagan: Government is not the solution to our problems; Government is the problem.
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Unread 06-05-2015, 05:40 PM   #8
kycherokee1239
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]Thanks for the reply. The shop did not tell me if they looked at this or not. I did not do this procedure before taking the heep in. I just priced a cluster at www.jeepsareus.com and am looking at $961.00 for anew cluster. Plus their labor.! Hard to justify on a 15 year old truck.
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Unread 06-05-2015, 06:06 PM   #9
CJ7-Tim
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Make sure the cluster is the cause of the issue before you buy anything. Because ECU provides all the data used by the cluster, and operates all the gauges in the cluster, it is unlikely the cluster is the cause of the symptoms. A used cluster from the local junkyard is $25. If absolutely have to have the mileage on your good used cluster changed, it can be done at home, or by a good auto electric shop.


The most logical and most likely cause of the symptoms, is wiring issues involving one or more of the OBD engine sensors.












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Total US debt has increased by 70% under Obama, from $10.625 trillion on January 21, 2009 to $18.005 trillion January 1, 2015.

Progressive Liberalism: Bringing you new Healthcare ideas so wonderful, they have to include mandatory participation ......

Originally Posted by Ronald W. Reagan: Government is not the solution to our problems; Government is the problem.
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Unread 06-09-2015, 06:56 PM   #10
kycherokee1239
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Well my troubles continue. I pushed back to the mechanic about the need for a new instrument cluster. I received a call back today. The shop told me that they had continued testing and measuring voltage at the sensors on the truck. These were checking out as being ok.

He did say the stalling (its like the engine is turned off and then back on. Every instrument stops working. Still no codes) has become much worse

The mechanic feels that the he issue is either at the ECM or with the cluster. I have some questions I hope I can get answers to so I can verify what I am being told.

1. Assuming the purchase of a new ECM, to install it are there downloads or other programing that needs to be done before it can be used?

2. How year specific is an ECM? My XJ is a 2000 4.0 L. Is a 2000 the only ECM that will work or would I have some junkyard options. Also with the instrument cluster. Am I limited to only that year?

3. Does the instrument cluster have any sort of module or "chip" that the ECM must communicate with so the engine will run?

Thanks for any help, information, or advice that can be given.
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Unread 06-09-2015, 08:02 PM   #11
HwyPilot
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There are shops that will test and repair ECM's, I'd go that route long before replacing one with new (ever). A junkyard part isn't a bad idea, but I'd just as soon have that one shipped off, tested and inspected (if they can't seem to do that), as I've seen a mess of "this is its" in the past on someone elses money, when it wasn't. Now that your XJ is in the shop, it gets trickier to deal with.

First, they told you it needed an instrument cluster, now it could be the ECM? That sort of flip-flop around on expensive parts has led me to ask around, find a better shop, call a tow truck, tell that shop you're towing it home, and have it towed to a better shop in your area. Be diplomatic about it, tell them you don't have the money to go any further right now, and do your best to whittle down their lack of results on your bill.

After moving where I am now back in '01, it took me the better part of a decade, and a pile of bad experiences, to find a shop I'd trust with a lawnmower, much less my car. A posting on this site with your location, asking for a trustworthy shop might get some good results.
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Unread 06-11-2015, 06:43 PM   #12
kycherokee1239
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I realize now that I have been guilty of the most common complaint by regular members of this forum: not doing some simple web research before posting a question. After looking on the web it is obvious that the ECM is year specific, heck it appears to be almost VIN specific! And if I were to buy a new "raw" ECM from Jeep, there would indeed need to be downloads and programing to be done. Although I am not sure how that is done.

I still am unclear if there are circuits or modules in the gauge cluster that would be the cause of my problems.

I was reading post which seem similar to my issue. A veteran member posted a reply, which of course I can't find now which detailed all the symptoms of a failed crank position sensor. The symptoms were all the same as mine until "no spark". I have a strong blue spark at the plugs. Also my new sensor is testing that it is ok. (A factory part)

I think I have decided to replace the computer.

There were many options of rebuilders. Does anyone have experience with a particular company or have a recomendation?

Thanks for any help or advice!
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