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Unread 06-30-2012, 06:09 PM   #1
DannyRoark89
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Rocker Arm chatter w/Pics/Vids and questions. REAL TECH not spray paint wars

read the first paragraph before you decide to venture on please.

*If you don't have any experience with an engine please dont post
*If you don't understand simple mechanical principles dont post
* If you refer to an 'engine' as a 'motor' and didnt know the difference between the two until just now when you googled it dont post
*If you are planning on breaking the first three rules by regurgitating information from google or Wikipedia, don't waste your time please. i can use google aswell and wikipedia still says our 11th grade teacher suicide bombed the mayflower because columbus called her 'gravy train' becuase she was so fat. so their credibility is dead to me.

I am looking for information to back up what i believe the issue wheather its a personal expierence or a link to another thread i havnt come across while researching.

so here the scoop on the jeep. its an 89 with 189K miles and is actially closer to 195k ish i would assume based on when i was told the gauge cluster qut working. but its all good i got my own dash in their right now but the price was so good because the owner self diagnosed a broken rod to be the source of an awfully loud and chattery noise. and said he would take a fair price for it, and i was prepared to battle but he offered a price so good i just said sold heres the money. althought the chatter is loud and annoying it wasnt a broken a rod i knew. his loss my gain, not my problem if he doesnt know what a broken rod sounds like.

got it home determined to get rid of the horrible noise. the noise is extremely
loud compared to other ticking issues from the lifters or cracked or loose flex plates and bent rods that i have dealt with. if compared to anything it sounds like valves on a dirtbike engine that need major adjusting. thats what i thought anyway so i pulled the valve cover off and figured since it was out some high temp paint would make it a little brighter under the hood.





after staring at the rocker arms for a few i started checking them for play and movement or damage or anything that seemed out of the norm. i started in the back of the engine and worked towards the grill simply checking for play. when i reached the the rocker arm that is closest to the front grill i did have a slight amount of movement in the rocker arm. moving it by hand did create a mild ticking noise so common sense says if the engine is running at 3000 RPM then imagine the ticking the would be proportionally louder right?

here is a video of the movement in the rocker arm


.
i unbolted the bridge and re tourqued them to make sure that wasnt the issue and it wasnt. and although i believe my tourque wrench is fine as far as calibration i double checked with a beam style tourqe wrench. so now came the looking and pondering and looking over specs trying to decide the next step and also try and determine what caused this to happen.









i pulled the bridge off the rockers once again and began to look at it for more than a glance and immediately could feel it was out of plumb and heres some pictures of that and a video that clearly show the whole thing is twisted.









and here is a picture of the next bridge up and is about as perfect to flat and normal as one would expect from a 23 year old part





no other isssues with this 4.0L so far. oil pressure, temperature, throttle response, idle everything is seemingly normal even the oil leaks match the oil stains from other xjs in my drive way/

heres what i would like to know from everybody, would you assume the chattering noise from the rocker arm showed above? what would you do to fix it? what do you think caused it? and please provide something more substantial than 'yes' or other thoughtless posts

thanks fellas!
thanks!

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Unread 06-30-2012, 06:12 PM   #2
DannyRoark89
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i do apalogize by the way it looks as if the videos dont play on the page and i dont care enough to try and fix it right now the videos appear to be the two smaller images and by clicking on them in will play in my photobucket page i guess.

Sorry for crap shoot on that one here at the direct links incase the images dont link to them

http://s730.photobucket.com/albums/w...ent=forum2.mp4

http://s730.photobucket.com/albums/w...ent=forum1.mp4
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Unread 06-30-2012, 07:44 PM   #3
AZ Jeff
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How many other bridges did you measure besides the next one over? I would ASSUME (not know for a fact) that all bridges should be pretty much square. One thing that MIGHT cause such an out-of-square condition is a bent rocker stud bolt, and/or a threaded hole that is not square to the plane of the head.

I suggest some more disassembly and comparison of the other members of the valve train. The FSM says NOTHING about checking the threaded bosses for height, squareness, etc., so comparison is about the only way you are going find if it' really amiss.

BTW, if you dont' have a dial caliper with a depth guage, this is good time to get one for doing these measurements.
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Unread 06-30-2012, 08:07 PM   #4
1CVPaul
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Does that attitude presented in the beginning of your post get you far ?
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Unread 07-02-2012, 12:58 AM   #5
Reptile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyRoark89 View Post
read the first paragraph before you decide to venture on please.

*If you don't have any experience with an engine please dont post
*If you don't understand simple mechanical principles dont post
* If you refer to an 'engine' as a 'motor' and didnt know the difference between the two until just now when you googled it dont post
*If you are planning on breaking the first three rules by regurgitating information from google or Wikipedia, don't waste your time please. i can use google aswell and wikipedia still says our 11th grade teacher suicide bombed the mayflower because columbus called her 'gravy train' becuase she was so fat. so their credibility is dead to me.
So I read the terms and conditions and I do have a question before I agree. I googled engine vs motor and I still can't see the difference. Also, I would like to assume the paint job on the valve cover wasn't an attempt to fix, but maybe I'm wrong. Is the shiny new paint supposed to shed some light on your issue? Anyway I'm sure chicks will be impressed.

Who knows what happened? Maybe there was flaw in the material or PO didn't do the maintenance. Okay so it's bent, replace it.
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Unread 07-02-2012, 03:07 AM   #6
justanotherjpr
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With the time you wasted trying to screen out potential respondents and illustrate your awesome attitude, you probably could have solved this problem. Go to a JY, pull some bridges. If they are square, buy them. Install one and see if the sound is better. You could try replacing the rocker arms and pushrods with it, but I prefer to replace the rockers/pushrods/cam as a set.

Have you used a mechanic's stethoscope to isolate the noise?
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Unread 07-02-2012, 05:41 AM   #7
Pats94
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Did you check the parts for uneven wear or galling? Im with AZ on get the right measuring tools. Tear them all out and inspect..
BTW. Work on the vid skills...
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Unread 07-02-2012, 06:20 AM   #8
n5xl
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I think you're chasing a red herring right now without focusing on more important basics. How about a bit of history with this vehicle...why was it sidelined...because of the noise? If you dont know the answers to that, how well does it start now and what is the current oil pressure on starting? Where exactly is the noise most prevalent and does it respond to changing RPM? Is there ever a time that its less pronounced? Since you've taken the valve cover off, did you bother to rotate the engine over and measure valve lift on each valve? Collapsed lifters, worn push rods, cam lobe wear will all manifest themselves in a simple lift check. Depending on what you find, follow up with a leak down test and further visual inspection if needed. A good video of the engine running with the problem sound would be much more helpful than measuring the squareness of a rocker bridge.

BTW, I find it just a tad ironic that you titled your thread with "REAL TECH not spray paint wars" and the very first tech thing you've done is to spraypaint the valve cover.
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Unread 07-02-2012, 06:42 AM   #9
Elexwiz
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I to stoopid to ofer eny reel advise. I jus wachin...

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Unread 07-02-2012, 06:48 AM   #10
Elexwiz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptile View Post
I googled engine vs motor and I still can't see the difference.
Jenny! I may not be a smart man, but I know what a motor is!

According to Webster's Dictionary, it an INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/motor
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Unread 07-02-2012, 07:03 AM   #11
heepinforChrist
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I am looking for information to back up what i believe the issue wheather its a personal expierence or a link to another thread i havnt come across while researching.

sooooo your not open to advise that may differ from what your opinion is, i had that mentallity before cost me alot in sensors, broken things redrilling things etc.

my .02- the awesome valve cover spray bomb job ended up netting too much awesome points and caused the rocker bridges to feel rather inedaquate, they bent under pressure.
also i just wrote this to break rules 1-3. dont be a d@uche next time
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Unread 07-02-2012, 10:27 AM   #12
Diamond-x
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My rocker bridges are all a little twisted on my motor, it makes no difference.

You have internal motor problems, take the head off check the cam shaft and lifters or whatever you call 'em.
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Unread 07-02-2012, 01:17 PM   #13
rugsucka
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A slightly off square bridge is not the cause of your noise - 195K miles has a lot to do with it. You could spend money on a new head containing an new valve train if you wanted to quiet down everything. The reality is that you have a worn out tractor engine.

The thicker paint on the cover probably helps deaden the sound though. A shiny looking valve cover may make the engine proud enough to recondition itself into a quiet motor. General Motors and Ford Motor Company don't know the difference between the two either.

I'm glad I don't screen the threads I reply to by the grammar and punctuation of the person posting. I personally don't like to reply to posts to threads with out capitalization, punctuation, and containing run-on sentences. Happy Engine-ing! I mean Motoring!
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Unread 07-02-2012, 02:02 PM   #14
cbenez1
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Your honor I would like the plantiff's opening statement completely stricken from the record so as not to deter anyone from giving helpful response's. The defense futher objects to the statement remaining on the post because if not removed my client may be viewed as a pompous d--che bag with an over developed sense of entitlement. Oh and I don't think rocker bridge has anything to do with the noise either. Cool valve cover though......
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Unread 07-03-2012, 12:04 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbenez1 View Post
Your honor I would like the plantiff's opening statement completely stricken from the record so as not to deter anyone from giving helpful response's. The defense futher objects to the statement remaining on the post because if not removed my client may be viewed as a pompous d--che bag with an over developed sense of entitlement. Oh and I don't think rocker bridge has anything to do with the noise either. Cool valve cover though......

Overruled.

Although highly suggested by the evidence, there is no direct connection between the above mentioned female intimate cleansing device, and plaintiff. It is therefore hearsay.

On the case Engine vs. Motor, the court finds that the statute does not define 'motor' as 'engine', as long as the valve cover presents a shiny blue paint. Upon review of the evidence (Appendix A & B), and after defendant's motion to strike on the basis that upload pictures presented as evidence had been resized, was not upheld; the jury hence established these to be factual. The court also finds that anyone in violation of rule 1, 2 and 3 set forward by plaintiff shall be held in contempt.


..I'd appeal.
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