New Jeep, Lots of issues.... - JeepForum.com
 1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 215 Old 05-06-2016, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
Domengo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Albany
Posts: 287
New Jeep, Lots of issues....

Hi,

I finally got my 2001 Cherokee Sport registered and on the road.. now comes the real fun, fixing all of the crap that's wrong with it!

-Death wobble. It's Bad, can't go over 45mph. It has three mismatched tires on it, though, so I am assuming if I get new rubber and an alignment, it would be a good place to start. Any pointers on what else to look for, aside from just inspecting the underside really well? Can you tell where the wobble is coming from depending on the type of wobble, or the speed where it starts?

- Electronics never shut off. As in, you can use the windows, wipers, radio, and everything even when the key has been removed from the ignition. Even when the door has been opened. Even the little green lights inside of the window buttons stay lit. I need to take the negative off the battery when I park it overnight.

- CHECK GAUGES light comes on after accelerating past 30mph. The light does not come on when first starting, and does not come on while idling. Only while driving, and stays on permanently until the engine is shut off.

- RMS, Oil filter gasket leaking. Whatever, I'll get to it when I can. Right now I just want to get it to a point where it is driveable.

Any ideas about the electronics issue? Where to start with that? As for the wobble, I'm going to have to just methodically go through each steering/suspension component until it goes away. Sigh... how time consuming this will be.

Domengo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 215 Old 05-06-2016, 03:22 PM
RLE
Registered User
1998 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ivory Coast
Posts: 846
Death wobble comes from worn or loose steering and suspension components.

First thing to look at, is the track bar tight at both ends ? (If you have a
stock track bar, check the bolt at the axle side, the 6 bolts holding the
frame mount, and the nut on the socket end of the track bar. If you have
a custom one, check all the bolts.) Are all 8 control arm bushings tight?

The way to check for play in the front end is park the Jeep on some gravel
or sand, lie down in front of it, have someone start the Jeep and simply turn
the steering wheel lock-to-lock slowly several times. Observe the 4 tie rod
sockets for any play and listen for any pops or noises coming from either end
of the track bar or the control arm bushings.

By doing this at different times I have found loose or bad CA bushings, loose
track bar axle end bolt, loose frame mount bolts, and a loose track bar socket.

Bad ball joints could also cause the wobble. If they are greased and all
right, the steering wheel should return smoothly to center whenever you
turn a corner. To check them, jack up a front wheel and grab it at the 12
and 6 o'clock positions and try to move it. There should be no play.

Try those things first and see what you find. There
are other possible causes of DW, especially the tires,
but you need to check these things.
Attached Images
 
RLE is offline  
post #3 of 215 Old 05-06-2016, 09:14 PM
CJ7-Tim
Real Jeeps have dents
 
CJ7-Tim's Avatar
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: out in the garage - Minneapolis
Posts: 25,789
Death Wobble is almost always weak/worn/damaged supspension and steering parts that need to be replaced.

Sounds like an ignition switch problem or a short circuit somewhere.

Check gauges, or Check Engine ? Either way you need to find and fix whatever is faulty and causing the light to come on. Have you checked for any stored Check Engine Light trouble codes ?

.

A recent Gallup public opinion poll shows the NRA, at 58% approval, has a higher approval rating than either Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama.

Progressive Liberalism: Bringing you new Healthcare ideas so wonderful, they have to include mandatory participation ...

Originally Posted by Ronald W. Reagan: Government is not the solution to our problems; Government is the problem.
CJ7-Tim is offline  
 
post #4 of 215 Old 05-20-2016, 12:44 AM Thread Starter
Domengo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Albany
Posts: 287
Hey guys,

Sorry for the late response, but thank you for your input nonetheless, I appreciate it.

I managed to figure out the "CHECK GAUGES" light -- like a genius, I replaced the alternator and then forgot to connect it to the battery.

As for the wobble, I have been replacing basically everything on the front end. New tires all around, front end alignment, replacing track bar, tie rod/tie rod ends (all of the tie rod ends are shot,). Also replaced the U-joints on either side. The passenger U-joint was so bad that I could wiggle it around like a loose baby tooth. As each of these components have been replaced, the wobble has gotten steadily better and harder to detect. The issue was just an onion with many layers.

The track bar was a bastard, too. I snapped the head off the bolt that held the bushing end onto the driveshaft. I tried drilling it out, but the bolt must have been grade 8 or something because it killed 3 drill bits. In the end, I used a flathead to pry it open a little, and wound up lying on my back, holding an angle grinder upside down and backwards so it would shoot the sparks away from my face instead of into it. I also did this blind, because I could not find any eye protection, so I just looked away and squinted hard, stopping to check progress every 15-20 seconds. Fun fun.

The water pump has also decided to go to heaven. I pisses down the lower hose after shutting the engine off. From what I've read it is an indication that the seal is gone, and as the coolant inside the block expands after shut off, it bleeds through a little porthole on the bottom of the water pump.

Also, the oil dipstick has been snapped off, flush against the engine. It is going to be a nuisance to remove it for replacement. for the mean time I scrubbed the area really well, and fixed the dipstick tube back into place with some epoxy putty. The heat/oil exposure will not bode well for the epoxy and I am certain that it will need a permanent fix very soon, but my to-do list is extensive and priorities must be met.

The electronics issue has been solved as well -- the ignition works fine, it simply does not hold the key. I can remove the key while the engine is running if I wanted to. So, I was accidentally turning the key all the way back, thus turning on the electronics, and confusing myself, because I assumed that if the key was coming out of the ignition, then the ignition must be off.

At this point, the issues that must be resolved are:

water pump
dipstick tube
tie rods/tie rod ends
oil pan gasket
oil filter ring seal
rear main seal
transmission fluid change
oil change (waiting for pan gasket et. al. to arrive before changing the oil, it doesn't make sense to do it twice).
Driver side window regulator

Also, it keeps throwing a check engine code for P0194 -- fuel rail failure to pressurize. This is a ghost code with no real cause, as the Jeep does not have a control system to even create the error. When I try to clear the error, the engine light shuts off and the code reader says "Erase Fail!" Like the Jeep just realized that it doesn't actually have a problem, and decides to shut the light off. Weird. Has anyone else experienced this issue?
Domengo is offline  
post #5 of 215 Old 05-20-2016, 04:13 AM Thread Starter
Domengo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Albany
Posts: 287
Oh hey, I have an additional question....

I would like very much to make a stroker out of this Jeep. I've read the popular websites on the matter and have also done extensive research into the topic, so you do not need to trouble yourselves with finding weblinks to post for me or anything like that; I simply would like to know how much work is it after all is said and done? I assume that I will need an engine hoist and at least one engine stand. However, should I try to get a donor vehicle (like an old AMC Eagle?) or would it be better to shop online for the parts? Also, how hard is it to pull an engine out of one of these? I have never pulled an engine before, although I've replaced clutches on other cars, which involves removing the transmission, and I have all of the necessary tools to do it (except for the engine hoist/stand). Would it be realistic to say that I could have the project finished within a month, while also working a full time job?

Thanks
Domengo is offline  
post #6 of 215 Old 05-20-2016, 05:49 AM
jordan96xj
Registered User
1996 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: central new york
Posts: 528
This on an 89 XJ, but it shows the whole process to give you a feel of whats involved:

89 Cherokee 4.6L Stroker Install (NickInTimeFilms):


Things I keep around that help fix Jeeps:
AeroKroil and Fluid Film
BAFX Products 34t5 Bluetooth OBDII Scan Tool and Torque Pro OBD2 App for Android
Etekcity MSR-P600 Digital Multimeter
Bernzomatic TS4000 Trigger Start Torch + MAP Gas
1/2 inch sockets, Breaker, Cheater Pipe, and BFH
jordan96xj is offline  
post #7 of 215 Old 05-20-2016, 03:14 PM
bluejunior
Web Wheeler
 
bluejunior's Avatar
2001 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Dallas
Posts: 6,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domengo View Post
Oh hey, I have an additional question....

I would like very much to make a stroker out of this Jeep. I've read the popular websites on the matter and have also done extensive research into the topic, so you do not need to trouble yourselves with finding weblinks to post for me or anything like that; I simply would like to know how much work is it after all is said and done? I assume that I will need an engine hoist and at least one engine stand. However, should I try to get a donor vehicle (like an old AMC Eagle?) or would it be better to shop online for the parts? Also, how hard is it to pull an engine out of one of these? I have never pulled an engine before, although I've replaced clutches on other cars, which involves removing the transmission, and I have all of the necessary tools to do it (except for the engine hoist/stand). Would it be realistic to say that I could have the project finished within a month, while also working a full time job?

Thanks
This will HEAVILY depend on whether or not you have a good machine shop and or engine shop nearby. Most stroker builds (I know you said you were good, but if you haven't checked out http://www.jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/stroker.html you should, the 4.6L low-buck stroker is particularly well-proven in the real world as a recipe) require boring and remachining of various surfaces. That's really not something you can do at home. As far as the actual work you can do at home it's pretty basic as far as tool requirements but there's A LOT of stuff going on. One should take pictures at every step, use masking tape and a sharpie to carefully label lines and wiring harnesses and such, all that jazz.

As to parts, you'll have to shop. Generally going through eBay and Amazon will find you everything you need, but some items like the commonly used 4.2L crank MIGHT be cheaper to find from local yards. A lot of that is down to how much research and shopping you're willing to do.

Lifted, Locked, Stiffened

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bluejunior is offline  
post #8 of 215 Old 05-20-2016, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
Domengo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Albany
Posts: 287
Got it, thanks for the input guys. I did not think about the machining that would be needed. I think the deck height needs to be tweaked a lot of the time. Depending on the condition of the block, the cylinders might even need to be redone. I guess this means a stroker project will probably cost more than a couple grand when all is said and done. Not to mention the effort of driving the parts to and from a shop. Hunting for materials online will also be time consuming. I guess it would be good to start gathering parts and storing them in the mean time. Some day when I am ready to pull the trigger, the stuff will be ready to go.

Today, I installed the track bar, new tie rod, new drag link, with new tie rod ends all around. Also installed a new steering damper. While I was at it, I installed the new water pump. The wheels are all cockeyed because of the tie rod adjustment, but the steering is really sharp now. There used to be an inch of play in the steering wheel, but now it is crisp and responsive. Unfortunately I was not able to finish aligning or test drive it because of work, but the stage is set to have it done tomorrow. Hopefully I can get the toe alignment decent enough to drive it a little before having it professionally done. I hope that the wobble is gone now, because throwing parts at the issue is becoming tiresome.
Domengo is offline  
post #9 of 215 Old 05-20-2016, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
Domengo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Albany
Posts: 287
It still wobbles.

It has gotten much, much better though. When I first put it on the road, it would wobble so violently that I needed to slam the brakes. Now, it seems to shimmy a little as it hits 45-50mph, and usually goes away on its own within a few seconds.

What's next guys? Sway bar links? The bushings on them are looking pretty beat, I guess I'll be spending another day or two on my back in the driveway.

Maybe the shocks need replacement. If the shocks are bad then they are probably allowing energy to move through the whole front end instead of just absorbing it as they should. What about the control arms? Would it help to install new bushings?

I have inspected the underside numerous times. There is nothing really obvious about it that screams to be fixed. I think everything is just worn. I am not sure how the control arm bushings are supposed to be when they are good/bad, but after seeing the extent of wear on the other parts, I think it is safe to assume that the CA bushings could probably use replacing.
Domengo is offline  
post #10 of 215 Old 05-20-2016, 11:29 PM
CJ7-Tim
Real Jeeps have dents
 
CJ7-Tim's Avatar
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: out in the garage - Minneapolis
Posts: 25,789
The first steps to eliminate death wobble should be a visual inspection of each component, checking the bushings, a tire balance and an alignment. Death wobble is experienced mostly on lifted Jeeps, however it is not uncommon for someone without a lift to experience the dreaded DW. Listed below are a few things you can check.

Check your Track Bar, play in this can cause the axle to shake.
1. Bushings - check to see that they are not worn. Looks for cracks, and excessive play)
2. Angles - this angle should be the same as your drag link. Use an angle finders you can get at sears to determine this, don’t just eye-ball it.
3. Track Bar Bolts – Make sure all bolts both at the axle end, and at the frame bracket, are tightened down to spec (some lift components have a different torque spec then)

Check the Axle, the mounts may be worn or the bolt holes enlarged.
1. Check the axle mount. Here is a good write up on a wallowed out bolt hole
2. Check your Universal joints, a binding or lose U-Joint can cause DW
3. On the frame end if you still use the conventional Tie Rod End or (TRE) make sure that there is no play in this, as play can cause DW.
4. Look/Check for worn/torn boots on ball joints/tie-rod ends.

Check your Tires
1. Out of balance tires can cause shaking in the front end, which can lead to death wobble.
2. Make sure all of your lug nuts are tight, (Sounds elementary but it happens to the best of us)

Check your Frame
1. Small cracks in the frame can cause the steering box to feel loose, Shaking from DW can only make this worse. 33’s and larger should have some form of Steering box brace, or frame brace in.
2. If you have upgraded your frame mount, make sure its cranked down nice and tight. (best to use an impact gun)
3. A busted Frame Mount can cause play in the front end causing DW (Keep a watchful eye on the welds as welds in sheer can break over time.

Make sure you have a good alignment
1. Lifted Jeep with larger tires require more toe-in.
2. After you get an alignment done, have them print out the numbers for you. An XJ should have a 7* positive caster angle. A lifted XJ can’t always have that high of a number because the pinion would become out of alignment with the front drive shaft. Pinion angle takes precedence over caster.
3. Make you sure you go to a shop that will adjust the caster if necessary (either by shims in the frame side of the LCAs, or adjustable LCAs).

The more adjustable parts the easier it is to tune in your suspension.
1. Adjustable Track Bar
2. Adjustable Upper and Lower Control Arms (upper ones above 4” of lift). Not only are they adjustable, but they are stronger.


Things to remember:
1. After any lift, get your Jeep professionally aligned, this is a REQUIREMENT,not a suggestion.
2. A Steering Stabilizer (SS) is not a quick fix for DW.
3. Make sure that the lift you purchase comes with all the required parts for a safe driving vehicle. (as long as its going to be a DD)
4. PLEASE ALWAYS DRIVE WITH YOUR FRONT SWAY BAR CONNECTED!


DW is not usually caused by one single item on the list below, it occurs when a combination of weak, damaged, failed, or out of specification items on the list are present. Tire issues will only initiate DW, and are not the sole cause of DW.

Entire list of everything that can cause death wobble:

- Loose, worn, or incorrectly torqued suspension nuts/bolts
- Front alignment out of spec
- Loose track bar
- Worn track bar bushing
- Worn track bar end
- Worn track bar bolt hole on axle
- Needing an adjustable track bar
- Bad bushings/joints in control arms
- Damaged control arms or control arm mounts
- Worn/damaged shocks
- Worn/damaged tie rod ends
- Bad U Joint
- Bad ball joint
- Loose track bar frame mount
- Worn track bar frame mount
- Steering box looseness
- Bad front hub assembly
- Bent axle housing

.

A recent Gallup public opinion poll shows the NRA, at 58% approval, has a higher approval rating than either Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama.

Progressive Liberalism: Bringing you new Healthcare ideas so wonderful, they have to include mandatory participation ...

Originally Posted by Ronald W. Reagan: Government is not the solution to our problems; Government is the problem.
CJ7-Tim is offline  
post #11 of 215 Old 05-20-2016, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
Domengo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Albany
Posts: 287
Oh yeah, and to make things better, the exhaust smells a little sweet. There is no white smoke, but it is most definitely burning a little coolant. Not sure if it is just the gasket or if it is the infamous 0331 issue. I will monitor the coolant level and see how quickly it drinks it.

CJ7-Tim, thank you for the detailed response. At this time, I have replaced:

Track bar
Tie rod/tie rod ends
Drag link assembly (everything except the pitman arm)
New tires, front end alignment
Front U-joints


As I noted earlier, the wobble has improved 90% from all of these implements, but it is still persistent.
Domengo is offline  
post #12 of 215 Old 05-21-2016, 06:25 AM Thread Starter
Domengo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Albany
Posts: 287
Any idea what the oil pressure should read at warm idle? Mine is around 30-35. It only has 104k, I am assuming it should be at 40. There is also the slightest hint of chocolate milk inside of the radiator fill tube. Looks like my jeep is lemon flavored. I'll just have to keep shoveling cash into it.
Domengo is offline  
post #13 of 215 Old 05-22-2016, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
Domengo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Albany
Posts: 287
I found that the lower passenger ball joint is shot. However, I cannot remove it. I am using a press and a 200ftlb air wrench. I verified that it must be pressed downward for removal. The press+ air wrench are not enough, though. The wrench is literally maxed out but the joint will not move.
Domengo is offline  
post #14 of 215 Old 05-22-2016, 06:39 PM Thread Starter
Domengo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Albany
Posts: 287
The lower ball joint was so stubborn that I had to use a dremel to open the top, then hammer the stud out from the bottom. After that, U cut the joint from within so that it was basically C-shaped, then used the press again to finally remove it. It took like 4 hours. But anyway, yeah, that ball joint was probably (definitely) the cause of the wobble. The good news is that I now have an almost entirely new front end. Hooray, there goes my electric bill, mortgage payment, child support, credit card bill, and gambling arrears. Just kidding... I don't gamble! (Har har har)
Domengo is offline  
post #15 of 215 Old 05-23-2016, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
Domengo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Albany
Posts: 287
OK, so I replaced the ball joints on the passenger side. The wobble is nearly gone, now. It still shimmies a little while accelerating from 45-55, but it resolves on its own and does not require me to hit the brakes.

However, I believe I installed one of the steering components improperly, because there is a loud pop whenever I turn the wheel to the left after having turned to the right. Because of the specific nature of the issue, it only happens while navigating tight spaces. I believe it is one of the tie rod ends or the steering arm assembly. One of the tie rod ends is binding and it pops free when I turn the wheel to the left. I will have to get someone to steer it for me so I can see which joint is popping.

But anyway, yeah, it's been a fun month of exorbitant expenses and seemingly endless parts replacement. Thanks for the input. I will continue to spam the crap out of this thread as I continue to do more work. Thankfully I am not spamming the rest of the board, though.
Domengo is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome