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Unread 07-22-2013, 06:42 PM   #1
79chiefs
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Need Brake Advice

I have this 88 Cherokee that I have been trying to fix the brakes on since i got it. So far, all new lines, new master cylinder, new calipers ( twice cause the reman were crap), and new wheel cylinders. I bled twice today, and tried a new method and it gave me a very firm pedal. My issue is now there is a goose under the hood near the MC. Also i have NO front brakes. I know this because i stop on a dime in reverse w/o locking up the fronts, but it takes forever to stop going forward. And it sometimes locks the rears. Then all of a sudden pedal goes to the floor. Sometimes it comes back other times it does not. And now i seem to have a vacuum leak but cannot find it. All of this started when i finally got a firm pedal. At first i vacuumed the fluid from the lines, but only got air out the front, i put a rubber line in the brake fluid and pumped every wheel in order 50 times to make sure they ALL have NO air and CLEAR fluid. If anyone has any advice on how to get my pedal to always return, get a firm brake pedal again, and also have front brakes; please tell me what to do. I have exhaused my wallet on this jeep and need help asap. I took it for a ride and its the smoothest XJ i have ridden in, but i have very little stopping power in drive. Also my temp oil pressure and fuel gauge acted up during the ride and quit so i guess i need new senders. BTW its the 88 in my signature.

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Unread 07-22-2013, 06:46 PM   #2
Holder350
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Got abs on it?
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Unread 07-22-2013, 06:48 PM   #3
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Calipers on the wrong sides?

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Unread 07-22-2013, 06:59 PM   #4
79chiefs
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No and no. I made sure they are installed exactly how the old ones came off. The bleeder facing up. I'm glad this does not have the abs system. It was useless, and a pain. I had it on another jeep.
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Unread 07-22-2013, 07:06 PM   #5
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Have you checked your proportioning valve?
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Unread 07-22-2013, 08:18 PM   #6
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I do no know how to check that. Ill see if i can find info. Could that be why i have issues bleeding the front brakes? I now think of the booster. It is making that goose sound.
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Unread 07-22-2013, 10:17 PM   #7
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I do no know how to check that. Ill see if i can find info. Could that be why i have issues bleeding the front brakes? I now think of the booster. It is making that goose sound.
Booster function will have NO effect on the brake bleeding. It will only change pedal force.

When you manually bleed the brakes, do they even discharge the normal amount as expected when the pedal is depressed? Are they bubble free?
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Unread 07-23-2013, 08:23 AM   #8
79chiefs
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All bleed as i expect except the front. I get tons of air from the driver side and all air from the passenger side when using a force bleeder. When i depress the pedal they all bleed fine.
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Unread 07-23-2013, 09:37 AM   #9
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Ok. Here's your first problem: You say you're using a force bleeder. Am I correct in assuming you mean a handheld vacuum pump? If you use a vacuum pump to try to pull the fluid through the lines down to the calipers, you probably will suck air. The bleed nipple threads are not totally air tight when you have the nipple open. So when you pull vacuum on the nipple, you just suck a bunch of air and never get it bled. That's why the pump doesn't work.

Second: When you're bleeding it by pumping the pedal, do you have a hose connected to it, then running into and ELEVATED container full of fluid? Remember, if your container is positioned below the caliper, you will push air down, but as soon as you stop pushing the pedal, it will just go straight back up into the caliper. By elevating your container (and obviously the end of the hose must be submerged in the fluid within that container), you can pump all the air out of the line and keep the air from returning up the line and into the brake system.

I'm not sure if that helps, but I'm guessing this is probably where your problem lies. Good luck!
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Unread 07-23-2013, 11:15 AM   #10
79chiefs
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Thanks for the advice, i found that exact issue with the pump so quit using it. When i pumped all i did was put the line in a container on the floor with a few inches of fluid in it and pumped. It did not suck air back just fluid, but i guess it could have sucked air through the bleeder threads.
Is there a way to test the proportioning block, or booster?
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Unread 07-23-2013, 11:26 AM   #11
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Bleed it again with the container elevated. Don't worry about the proportioning valve until you rebleed everything. Forget that I mentioned it. If you didn't bleed the system properly then theres no reason to suspect the proportioning valve. And definitely don't worry about the booster. Like Jeff said, the booster has nothing to do with the brake hydraulics. Bleed the system properly first. If you still have issues after that, deal with it then. A bad booster will only make the pedal harder to push, it won't give you brakes that don't work. Rebleed the system with your container elevated and I'll bet your brakes will work. Trust me.
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Unread 07-23-2013, 11:37 AM   #12
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Thanks!!
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Unread 07-23-2013, 12:07 PM   #13
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Just re bled the brakes. NOW FRONT WORK. I still have squishy pedal. It goes almost to the floor. When i hit the floor in drive the rears lock up and i feel the front working. And in reverse the front locks up. Also can spin the rear wheels when i hold it all the way down in drive so the front must work. Why do i have no pedal???????
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Unread 07-23-2013, 12:24 PM   #14
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Ok did some research i believe my check valve is bad on the booster. Here are my tests. I started the jeep and let it build vacuum. I clamped the vacuum line and my brakes were harder, and felt normal. And the second i think this definitely tells me it is bad, i can suck air through it and push it back through the same way. Is the valve only supposed to let air in or out, because this one is doing both. Please tell me i found my issue so i can go spend 5$ on a new valve and not 85$ on a booster.
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Unread 07-23-2013, 12:48 PM   #15
Barrishautomoti
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Well that's a vacuum line, so the air needs to come out of the booster and not go back in. If your brakes function properly now, but you have to press the pedal extra hard, then I'd agree, it's a booster issue. It sounds like that check valve is bad. If you were able to clamp the line and it held vacuum, then the booster is good. Get yourself a check valve and you'll probably be in good shape.

Let us know how it works out!
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