My goal is to get 25+ mpg from my 99 XJ with 30 x 9.5 R15 ATs - Page 93 - JeepForum.com
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Unread 01-21-2014, 12:56 PM   #1381
green97xjsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtons3 View Post
1. 87 octane/10 percent ethanol - 16.7mpg 2. 91 octane/10 percent ethanol - 15.5mpg 3. 87 octane/0 ethanol - 17.2mpg 4. 87 octane/20 percent methanol - 14.9 mpg 5. 93 octane w/commercial MTBE oxygenate - 17.9 6. 109 octane/25 percent oxygenated w/MTBE - 8.5mpg (primarily doing dyno pulls and acceleration tests). Im still waiting for someone to tell me 1. How nitrogen enrichment will help....anything. And 2. How -exactly- you hydrogen enrich a fuel (at the pump).
by your results, the lowly 87 octane with no ethanol was probably the best result for mpg + affordability of miles per $$. They post those non ethanol fuel stations on the web, not many around to make it an every fill up occasion.

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Unread 01-21-2014, 12:56 PM   #1382
mschi772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottspott99
r u serious??!! i zero out trip meter every fill up and run tank dry and record milege what else you want? pics video?cant even compare usa vs canadian made jeeps,or gas, or beer 4 that matter! dilluted crap lmao. since ive been labeled uncredible... fill up with good stuff and test yourself and show your "data" then enlighten us with your findings. please and thank you
You remain under the impression that premium is "the good stuff." Not even the manufacturers would ever make that claim. It's just a different fuel for different engines. Is it the name, "premium" that makes you think it's better? Is it the higher price? Get it out of your head that premium is inherently superior to regular. It is not.

How can you even continue to repeat yourself here so much in spite of how many of us have given you constructive criticism regarding how hollow and rambling your claims appear. Stop telling everyone to go out of their way to test your claims, man-up, and do your own work to back-up your claims. We've told you exactly how, so just do it or give it up.

This is a dead horse issue that is just getting in the way of more productive discussions we could be having. I'd really like to get someone in here with the know-how and skills to fab lightweight body skids for aerodynamics and pick their brain.

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Unread 01-21-2014, 01:00 PM   #1383
green97xjsport
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This thread is called "My goal is to get 25+ mpg from my 99 XJ with 30 x 9.5 R15 ATs" My goal being the OP's thread topic, I'm sure he appreciates additional suggestions and data, but doubt he appreciates his thread being taken over by debate.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 01:02 PM   #1384
mschi772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottspott99
they market nitrogen gas here as cleaner burning.and 91 octane withno ethanol. even warn us not to use 87octane in old motors or 2 strokes
That warning is about E15 specifically, not regular 87 octane. Regular gas is not E15. It is E10 at most--likely less ethanol than even that.

Until I see proof beyond a marketing claim, nitrogen enriched fuel is just a gimmick to trick people into thinking their product is better, and since I've already covered how there's no way to know whose gas your really getting at any given gas station, it doesn't even matter since you might be getting BP gas instead of Shell gas and not even know it.

The ecomodder link I recently posted has lots of stuff in it worth discussing. Let's chew on that for awhile, shall we?

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Unread 01-21-2014, 01:02 PM   #1385
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I understand that they market the product, but nitrogen does nothing for the oxidation reaction. I have been questioning for some time how it could possibly benefit anything. Obviously, non ethanol fuel is preferable in most cases. However, it is unavailable in some areas as oxygenated fuel is mandated and MTBE has been discontinued, making ethanol the oxygenate of choice by default.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 01:11 PM   #1386
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Originally Posted by mschi772 View Post
That warning is about E15 specifically, not regular 87 octane. Regular gas is not E15. It is E10 at most--likely less ethanol than even that.

Until I see proof beyond a marketing claim, nitrogen enriched fuel is just a gimmick to trick people into thinking their product is better, and since I've already covered how there's no way to know whose gas your really getting at any given gas station, it doesn't even matter since you might be getting BP gas instead of Shell gas and not even know it.

The ecomodder link I recently posted has lots of stuff in it worth discussing. Let's chew on that for awhile, shall we?

Sent from my phone
I see you are still making good sense.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 01:51 PM   #1387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschi772
You remain under the impression that premium is "the good stuff." Not even the manufacturers would ever make that claim. It's just a different fuel for different engines. Is it the name, "premium" that makes you think it's better? Is it the higher price? Get it out of your head that premium is inherently superior to regular. It is not. How can you even continue to repeat yourself here so much in spite of how many of us have given you constructive criticism regarding how hollow and rambling your claims appear. Stop telling everyone to go out of their way to test your claims, man-up, and do your own work to back-up your claims. We've told you exactly how, so just do it or give it up. This is a dead horse issue that is just getting in the way of more productive discussions we could be having. I'd really like to get someone in here with the know-how and skills to fab lightweight body skids for aerodynamics and pick their brain. Sent from my phone
Yeah. A lighter and better shaped front skid would be awesome! Idk why one would make it out of though. Or what shape is best.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 02:13 PM   #1388
mschi772
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Yeah. A lighter and better shaped front skid would be awesome! Idk why one would make it out of though. Or what shape is best.
FastPlastic uses galvanized steel sheet commonly sold for use in ducts. JeepNmpg2 and many others use coroplast corogated plastic (many campaign and other yard signs are made of this). Some guys use FRP panels. Obviously these are meant for lightweight aerodynamics only--NOT as actual skid protection. If you need armor, use armor.

I might use FRP, but I think I'll more likely use coroplast myself if I ever get around to doing any of this. It's cheap (can even be free from some recycling centers), has a great strength:weight ratio, and can be easily handled/cut. It's not really flexible, but if I need to put "spoilers" on any edges (such as at the trailing edge of the front skid in order to direct airflow under the front axle), I'll bond some other material to it for that purpose where it's needed as it's needed. I'll also have to use some other material around heat sources like the exhaust to protect the coroplast.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 04:33 PM   #1389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottspott99 View Post
r u serious??!! i zero out trip meter every fill up and run tank dry and record milege

Do you record the amount of fuel pumped?



Quote:
Originally Posted by scottspott99 View Post
what else you want?
Your numbers. Previously, you said you had no way to record them. You NOW say you record them. (Or some of them - the jury is still out on the fuel usage numbers.)

So post them. Show us the numbers for regular and for premium with octane booster.

Simple.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 04:55 PM   #1390
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Originally Posted by chris87xj View Post
What's happening to this thread?
If I have to come in here and clean-up a bunch of off-topic crapola, somebody is gonna pay with some time off.
People read this thread for the good discussions. Let's keep to the topic and not make it difficult for others to find good info.
Off topic chat goes elsewhere.
Hmmmmm .... this might be my last JF post ..

Keep cracking the whip Chris ..

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Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
...... The part number is 2000-205 for the Highflow 205F stat for Jeeps. There have been NONE available for a long time, but Motorad is now making a new batch of 700 of them. That'll be plenty for everyone who wants one ......
I foresee 700, 4.0l, cracked heads and warped engine blocks in the making .. ..

... seriously tho ... congrats for finally going to the manufacturer, rather than chasing your tail dealing with suppliers, who generally havent a clue.

... and fellas ... Take note of the previous comments by Charley3 and others ..... i.e. Make sure your cooling system is up to scratch - if you want to force the engine - to run at a, minimum, 205*,

...... as its only, another 10* or 15*, before the computer thinks coolant temps are too hot ... and it turns on the electric, OMG I'm overheating, fan ..


Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRidgeMark View Post
So, you're going by miles between fill-ups? Then you have no idea what your actual mileage is. You just THINK you know.
Not too discredit the value of data and recording it .... but,

... I think that would depend on how long the vehicle has been owned, how many times the tanks been filled ... and what, known, distances were covered between fill ups.

Personally, MPG means squat to me ... On a trip, I know my fuel consumption is excessive, if and when I need to drag the jerry can out, before, I've travelled 300mile.


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You could make one out of plexiglass, but wouldn't that overheat the plexiglass or the headlights?
Overheating the plexiglass/perspex is not much of an issue ... it gets airflow cooling. UV deterioration over time, is my experience with HL covers.

Other issue is, as you mentioned ... headlight heat. Most of my covers had a coupla small holes in them.
Cheap and nasty aftermarket headlights ... such as those, so many on this forum choose to fit ... will probably end up with the chrome bubbling off the reflector - in much the same way it bubbles off, cheap driving lights, fitted with clear covers. Too high a wattage bulb also plays a part in that issue.

Shorter life of the bulbs is something I've experienced too.

Covers for the update XJ headlights are easy to make ... but the preupdates with the bends and curves needed - will require some "molding" ... which might be able to be done, as a one off job at a small manufacturer, of those perspex, business card and flyer holders ??


I forget whether I mentioned it before ... but fitting a humble vacuum gauge will assist in gaining an extra inch or two per gallon.

They used to fit them as "economy" gauges in vehicles back in the 80's. Much more trendy, automotive, method of being gentle - with the go pedal

... compared to duct taping an egg to it.

.... less messy too .. ..
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Unread 01-21-2014, 05:59 PM   #1391
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Originally Posted by chris87xj View Post
What's happening to this thread?
If I have to come in here and clean-up a bunch of off-topic crapola, somebody is gonna pay with some time off.
People read this thread for the good discussions. Let's keep to the topic and not make it difficult for others to find good info.
Off topic chat goes elsewhere.
Thank you!

I just got a Motorad corporate executive to come read this thread and they're going to make premium 205F stats for our 4L Jeeps that will be better than any other 205F stat any of us have previously used.

It'd be a shame if Motorad executives came to this thread while it was in the midst of off topic horse pucky. That'd be embarassing for all of us who are sincere and care, and embarrassing for Jeep Forum too.

So please be on topic guys.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 06:07 PM   #1392
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Making/buying hydrogen costs more money than it saves. So not cost effective.

It takes more energy to create hydrogen than you get back from the hydrogen.

This is why hydrogen powered, or hydrogen enriched/supplemented, cars are not feasible.

I see no further point in discussing hydrogen.
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Unread 01-21-2014, 06:17 PM   #1393
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As far as octane and ethanol mixtures are concerned...

I don't mind a little debating, but the debating has gone to far lately.

For those with an open mind, those topics have been well and repetitively covered earlier in thread and recently too. So read those posts, and decide for yourself what octane/grade gas you want to use, but please don't make new posts about thst topic because it's already been beat to death.

For those who already know what octane you prefer, use whatever you want, but please don't post about it anymore because it's already been beat to death 3 times (early, middle, and later in thread).
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Unread 01-21-2014, 08:04 PM   #1394
BlueRidgeMark
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Not too discredit the value of data and recording it .... but,

... I think that would depend on how long the vehicle has been owned, how many times the tanks been filled ... and what, known, distances were covered between fill ups.

Well, the value of it is simply this: If you are recording the miles traveled and the fuel actually pumped, you know what your mileage is. If you know what your mileage is, you can determine if method X or method Y really does improve your MPGs.

If you are going by miles between fillips, you don't. Your gas gauge's inaccuracy and the variability of the shutoff mechanisms in the pumps means that you don't have any way to know how much you really used.

Anyone who is serious about improving MPG must record real data. Any suggestions or recommendations based on "miles between fillups" is just so much noise. Not worth anything.

This is as fundamental as it gets. Not recording actual data and then playing with this or that to improve mileage is like building a house on sand and then trying to hold the walls together with spackling. You are just wasting your time.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Carves View Post
I forget whether I mentioned it before ... but fitting a humble vacuum gauge will assist in gaining an extra inch or two per gallon.

They used to fit them as "economy" gauges in vehicles back in the 80's. Much more trendy, automotive, method of being gentle - with the go pedal

... compared to duct taping an egg to it.

.... less messy too .. ..
And much less smelly over time!

Seriously, though, after basic tuneup stuff, this might be the best thing anybody can do to improve MPGs. I know the owner of a company that makes those fancy performance & MPG setups that the diesel truck boys love to run, and he admitted that almost all of the improvement in MPG comes from teaching people to keep their big feet out of the throttle. It's not the fancy programmed chip, it's the gauges that tell you what you are doing so you can learn to drive more smoothly.
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Unread 01-22-2014, 07:05 AM   #1395
longtro
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned. Those little flappes in front of the front tires on so many of the new cars.
I think any aero mods likely help on the hyw.
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