My goal is to get 25+ mpg from my 99 XJ with 30 x 9.5 R15 ATs - Page 7 - JeepForum.com
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Unread 07-25-2013, 07:40 PM   #91
Newtons3
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That will compensate for temp diff, but not for the lag time. A sensor in stat housing gives much faster response times when fan is needed. IME
This is true. I would actually prefer one in the head. Preferably ahead of the thermostat housing. I've had them all over and I've actually found that the head is the best place for a temp sending unit for a gauge. My adaptor in my upper radiator hose has proven to be ideal for my electric fan. It senses what is actually going to the radiator and works well.

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This magic you speak of impresses me. I want one.
http://www.amazon.com/ScanGauge-Auto...ords=scanguage

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Unread 07-25-2013, 07:58 PM   #92
Charley3
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Active Grill Louvers

Active grill louvers are now become available on some new economy cars. I've heard some semi have these.

I think it means mostly closed off grill in cold weather, and partly closed at highway speeds in any weather.

Why good? It helps engine get to full op temp in Winter and stay there. Running hotter saves fuel.

Also, closing (or partly closing) the grill reduces wind drag through engine compartment. Especially closing upper part of grill, according to economodders.

According to economodders, the combination of benefits yields a few extra mpg highway. A few means at least 3 mpg. So that's huge, IMO.

I'd love to have something like that on my XJ.

Here is a thread about it. http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...cls-22077.html
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Unread 07-25-2013, 08:13 PM   #93
wj4play
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Smokey Yunick is a hero of mine. I studied that Fiero hot air engine and read everything published about it. Don Garlits has it in his Drag Racing Museum in Ocala Florida. When I was there two years ago, the lady in the museum opened it up for me so I could have a peek. You should stop and see it if you're ever in the area. Incidentally, they also have his Octane Motor in the front of the same building. Amazing stuff.
I enjoyed his 454 small block build : - I read his stuff back in the early 90's when I was in mechanics at a local collage, always wanted to replicate his "hot vapor" turbo fiero
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Unread 07-25-2013, 08:15 PM   #94
Charley3
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This is true. I would actually prefer one in the head. Preferably ahead of the thermostat housing. I've had them all over and I've actually found that the head is the best place for a temp sending unit for a gauge. My adaptor in my upper radiator hose has proven to be ideal for my electric fan. It senses what is actually going to the radiator and works well.
Upper radiator hose is as good as stat housing, except a minor nuisance when changing hose, IMO.

On my Wrangler I tried radiator, hose, and stat housing. Finally settling on stat housing as my preference.
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Unread 07-25-2013, 08:25 PM   #95
Newtons3
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Active grill louvers are now become available on some new economy cars. I've heard some semi have these.
My wife drives a unicorn. She has a new Ford Focus ST with the active louvers. They seem to work well. I've been watching water and oil temps and they are quite stable when you can control airflow.

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I enjoyed his 454 small block build : - I read his stuff back in the early 90's when I was in mechanics at a local collage, always wanted to replicate his "hot vapor" turbo fiero
I've used much of his published advice. His leadership guided my racing days. I met and had the pleasure of knowing well a few old guys who raced with and against him. They really shaped my racing career. The number one thing Smokey and the rest of these guys taught me was: Don't do what everyone else does. Following the pack makes you a follower. In order to lead, you have the strength to do what others say is not possible.
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Unread 07-25-2013, 08:46 PM   #96
mschi772
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I use a sensor at the outlet side of the radiator A) because I had this radiator and B) because this way the coolent temp entering the engine will remain more consistent. The thermostat sets the minimum temp of the engine, and the fans set the max temp, but I prefer to defer temp regulation duties to the thermostat whenever the choice can be made. Sensing at the stat housing places more of the burden of temp regulation on the fans--not saying that's worse; I personally prefer not to place the ultimate temp regulation responsibilities on electric fans (more can go wrong with them than can with a stat). Sensing at the outlet of the radiator also means that if the natural airflow through the radiator is sufficient, the fans won't turn on unnecessarily.

Yes, there is latency when sensing temp spikes, but the water pump keeps things moving quickly enough that temps could ever spike/swing that greatly if at all, and the fact that I'm using a 195 instead of trying to bump my operating temps up with a 205+ stat means that I've got more wiggle room anyway. Likewise, there is a latency problem with mounting the sensor at the stat housing or similar--instead of having a latent reading of temp spikes, there will be a latent reading of temp DIPS generated by the fans turning on or by exiting a traffic jam. In a way, I like the outlet location simply because my fan controller has more direct control of the fans this way--logical.

There are pros and cons to any sensor location. There's no such thing as a perfect spot as far as I'm concerned.
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Unread 07-25-2013, 08:52 PM   #97
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The number one thing Smokey and the rest of these guys taught me was: Don't do what everyone else does. Following the pack makes you a follower. In order to lead, you have the strength to do what others say is not possible.
Yes! Finally someone understands and appreciates me! Mua ha ha ha!

It's a lot easier to say stupid things like "buy a Prius" than it is to take on the challenge.

Every accomplishment starts with someone believing something is possible, and progresses through effort and the courage to try.

I'm happy. Making good progress, so far spent minimal money, and having a good time. I've also got to interact with many creative, pioneer minded people in this thread. It is a priviledge to know all of you.
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Unread 07-25-2013, 08:56 PM   #98
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Keep it in perspective, Charley (please read in a friendly, teasing tone). If you want to talk about pioneering fuel efficiency with an XJ, you've got a long way to go before you match this guy. http://driveev.com/jeepev/home.php


That link should keep you busy for awhile--lots of interesting reading. He's my hero.
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Wheels wanted to buy:
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KJ 17x7.5 6-spoke, or KJ 16x7 5-spoke alloy

Paying ~$50 per wheel--Classified ad HERE
Have 4 (oxidized) Lace and 5 Eccos for potential trade
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Unread 07-25-2013, 09:00 PM   #99
Charley3
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I'm going to try to figure out how to buy or make active grill louvers for my XJ. Suggestions would be appreciated.
Hopefully they'll be easier to get than unobtainium.
I think I saw in an old classic car book some cars from teens, 20s, or 30s with active grill louvers that were thermostatically controlled.

This is a great idea for gas mileage, as already discussed, but also makes a radiator thermostat unnecessary, IMO. If thermostat closes off grill louvers when engine less than full op temp, and then gradually opens them as needed for cooling, that will control engine temps quite well, IMO. Along with electric fan(s) that come on when needed. The fans should be set to come on at a slightly higher temp than opens grill louvers.
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Unread 07-25-2013, 09:09 PM   #100
Charley3
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Keep it in perspective, Charley (please read in a friendly, teasing tone). If you want to talk about pioneering fuel efficiency with an XJ, you've got a long way to go before you match this guy. http://driveev.com/jeepev/home.php

That link should keep you busy for awhile--lots of interesting reading. He's my hero.
Please read in a friendly joking manner...

Mschi, I thought I was your hero. Ha ha.

At least I'm trying, and having good successs, and haven't even spent much money so far.

I will study the info in the link you provide.

I will study in detail the info everyone has provided throughout the thread. I've already studied much of it, and skimmed all of it.

I don't always comment on posts, but I do read them all, and study and seriously consider others suggestions. I will be using several ideas posted by others, as well as some of my own ideas.

Mschi, will I be your hero if I get 26 mpg with 30" ATs? Yes of course I will be, but you'll never admit it.
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Unread 07-25-2013, 11:33 PM   #101
Charley3
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I used to own a 76 Dodge that had a sheet metal heat collector box above exhaust manifold and one branch of the air intake sucked the hot air from heat collector box.

While engine below full op temp, it drew hot air into air cleaner.

When engine reached full temp, a heat actuated spring closed a door in the air intake system so that it drew cold air (from another branch) far from the exhaust manifold.

Neat setup, but I have no idea how duplicate it for a 4L Jeep engine.
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Unread 07-26-2013, 12:34 AM   #102
Charley3
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I deleted this post. It was redundant.
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Unread 07-26-2013, 12:48 AM   #103
Charley3
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Newtons3, if I don't get Ford OEM injectors, what brands of aftermarket injectors do you recommend?
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Unread 07-26-2013, 03:49 AM   #104
mschi772
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For the grill, I personally really like FastPlastic's method of an individual panel (started with plexiglass but switched to abs plastic) per grill section. I believe FP uses foam tape to create a lip to hold them in place while still being able to pop them in and out. Sheet metal and magnets might be an even better way to go.

I think you're overcomplicating things with wanting adjustable louvers. The grill blocks are for aerodynamics, not cooling. Yes, there may be times when it'll be too warm with them all in, but you pop a couple out and you're set; you shouldn't need to fine-tune them so much as to need adjustable louvers.

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2009-2011 1994 Cadillac Eldorado ETC
2011-Pres 1996 Jeep Cherokee Country
Wheels wanted to buy:
4 or 5 Turbines, old XJ 5-slot,
KJ 17x7.5 6-spoke, or KJ 16x7 5-spoke alloy

Paying ~$50 per wheel--Classified ad HERE
Have 4 (oxidized) Lace and 5 Eccos for potential trade
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Unread 07-26-2013, 06:46 AM   #105
silentneko
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Went to Rocksauto and I don't see the thermostat listed, are you sure you didn't mean gates instead of gants?

Actually the only one I see is from AC delco, would this work the same?
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