Manual 5 speed tranny hard to get in gear... - JeepForum.com

 
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post #1 of 13 Old 08-17-2005, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
PRYDE
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Question Manual 5 speed tranny hard to get in gear...

Ive been noticing lately that when just driving my jeep around to test things out, it is sometimes very hard to get into 1st or reverse. Sitting on flat ground with the engine turned off, it is usually easy to get into every gear with the clutch pedal not depressed. Now I have noticed that when I can get it into 1st or reverse (with the clutch pedal to the floor, engine running) it will creep forward ever so slightly in 1st, and creeb backwards (very slowly) when in reverse, when the clutch pedal is pressed to the floor. There are no problems with the vehicle moving once the clutch pedal is released, but sometimes its even had to shift into 2nd. I notice a noise when I have to force it into gear right before the stick shift seats in where its supposed to be, and it sounds like gears not meshing properly (when i apply pressure to the stick, say forward to go into 1st...with the clutch pedal down of course) Anyone have any ideas what this could be? I dont know too much about transmissions, but is there a shift linkage that could maybe out of line or something... I just got a cast off my right wrist / arm from 7 weeks and its somewhat hard to get into gear.

Would the first thing to do be to change the transmission fluid?

thanks for any help!


'87 XJ...400$ STOCK

Currently stripped down to nothing...
Getting rebuilt slowly but surely...

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post #2 of 13 Old 08-17-2005, 02:13 PM
talasonic
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It sounds like the clutch is rusted a bit, from sitting so long. This causes it to drag slightly, even when the clutch is pushed in. That is why the car moves forward slightly while the clutch is pushed in. The way I see it, you have two options. You could just ignore the problem and it will probably go away, or you could adjust the clutch so that it is disengaged a little more. Just be very careful adjusting it, because once the rust is gone, it might need to be adjusted back, and if the adjustment is out of whack in the disengaged direction, the clutch could slip while you're cruising down the road (esp in high gear) and this will burn up the clutch faster than anything. On the other hand, right now it's a little hard on your transmission to jam it into gear, and it's wearing out the synchronizers in it faster. The synchronizers are normally only used when downshifting. If it were me, I'd probably adjust the clutch. I think all you have to do is disconnect the clutch pedal at the top, and then screw the bracket onto the clutch master cylinder farther inwards. Just a little bit should do the trick.

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post #3 of 13 Old 08-17-2005, 04:29 PM
BrunoS
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your problem seems to be a symptom of clutch disk slightly dragging by not fully releasing.

Fix: drive it in heavy traffic for several days in a row. should free up.

for reverse, welcome to 5-speed manual XJ's: I put in in third, then go back to reverse...no need to wait for tranny to "spin down" otherwise, it's hold clutch for at least 5 seconds before gingerly going into reverse.

i am not aware of the pedal being adjustable on the 96's....tell me more.

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post #4 of 13 Old 08-17-2005, 05:41 PM
talasonic
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Actually I saw the pedal adjustment on an 85. Mine is an automatic. Driving it in traffic will probably do the trick, like he said.

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post #5 of 13 Old 08-17-2005, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
PRYDE
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So it COULD just be an adjustment of a cable.....I will have to see what I can do about it, is it bad for the clutch to be ingages slightly like this?? Sometimes it will just pop into gear no problem, but if im on any sort of an incline, its very hard. There are also times. Maybe once or twice in the last month where I couldnt even get it into gear, and I had to reverse, then try again....I have only been able to drive it up and down my driveway (back and forth) and barely ever put it into second gear......I'll leave it for now, and see how it acts once its back on the road!

But in the meantime...any more ideas of what it COULD be?..haha. This jeep has been the best learning experience ever, and I love it.

'87 XJ...400$ STOCK

Currently stripped down to nothing...
Getting rebuilt slowly but surely...

It's a fixxer upper, but thats part of the fun.
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post #6 of 13 Old 08-17-2005, 07:22 PM
SuperStreetJeep
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I only have to push my clutch in a weee bit to shift gears... I hate it I mean like an inch or 2 the rest doesnt do jack ....
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post #7 of 13 Old 08-18-2005, 05:49 PM Thread Starter
PRYDE
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Well I have been driving it plenty (still on the property though) and the problem is still there. I tried pulling away from a stop a little faster and so on, but it will still be hard to shift into gear from a stop. There isnt alot about the manual trans. in my haynes manual, but I was wondering if I bled the clutch it would have an affect? I could not see any adjustment to the pedal itself or any calbes or anything to disengage...I was reading around and it may be hydraulically disengaged? I really dont want to burn out the clutch if it is dragging....!!

'87 XJ...400$ STOCK

Currently stripped down to nothing...
Getting rebuilt slowly but surely...

It's a fixxer upper, but thats part of the fun.
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post #8 of 13 Old 08-19-2005, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRYDE
So it COULD just be an adjustment of a cable.....I will have to see what I can do about it, is it bad for the clutch to be ingages slightly like this?? Sometimes it will just pop into gear no problem, but if im on any sort of an incline, its very hard. There are also times. Maybe once or twice in the last month where I couldnt even get it into gear, and I had to reverse, then try again....I have only been able to drive it up and down my driveway (back and forth) and barely ever put it into second gear......I'll leave it for now, and see how it acts once its back on the road!

But in the meantime...any more ideas of what it COULD be?..haha. This jeep has been the best learning experience ever, and I love it.
It's not a cable, it hydrolicly (sp?) operated and it might need bled. Be advised the slave cylinder is inside the belhousing on yours and the tranny needs dropped to replace it. Also Jeep used the French Pegout transmission till mid 89 and they are not the smoothest shifters

JoBo
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post #9 of 13 Old 08-19-2005, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
PRYDE
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I havent noticed the fluid level going down in the master cylinder, so lastnight I decided to try and bleed it. Its fairly awkward to get up in there, but when i managed to get a 9/16th wrech on the bleed vavle it would NOT move. I tried putting a 5/16th wrench on the smaller nut attatched to the line, but it would not budge. (i didnt want to force it too much and break it) Its fairly rusted, I dont think its ever been bled. Any ideas on how to make it open easier?

'87 XJ...400$ STOCK

Currently stripped down to nothing...
Getting rebuilt slowly but surely...

It's a fixxer upper, but thats part of the fun.
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post #10 of 13 Old 08-19-2005, 08:38 AM
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Typical Jeep Internal Slave CYL. MY 92 did that for over a hundred thousand miles. I always used 2nd or 4th to stop the synchros then goto 1st. It's just a bad design.

Eventually I got fed up with it....when I rebuilt my tranny I swapped to an external (95'+) slave.

Easiest and best swap I ever did. I highly reccomend it if you're pulling the tranny for any reason.

I did the entire swap for less then $200. (not including clutch disk)


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post #11 of 13 Old 08-19-2005, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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Well!

I finally realized I was trying to turn the wrong thing to bleed the clutch..and had to move an inch to hte right to the small 1/4 inch nut tupe thing right on hte bleeder nipple. I got someone to push the clutch in slowly, and holy A LOT of air came out. So much that I had to stop and close it off before hte master cylinder went dry. Later tonight I will top it up and do a few more bleed but already I can notice a huuuge difference. It is still somewhat hard (only 1 out of say 20 shifts) to get it in gear sometimes....but nowhere at hte same level as before. The clutch does feel a little easier to push also. Ill bleed it a 2nd and maybe 3rd time just to get the rest out and I will follow up on how it turns out! I work in a bike shop and I bleed hydraulic disc brakes often and I know one air buble can make a huge difference in working, or not working at all!!

'87 XJ...400$ STOCK

Currently stripped down to nothing...
Getting rebuilt slowly but surely...

It's a fixxer upper, but thats part of the fun.
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post #12 of 13 Old 08-19-2005, 01:30 PM
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my '87 manual also has an infrequent random problem getting into gear. I have always chalked it up to a freak occurrence of gear teeth lining up tip-to-tip such that they don't want to engage (what I would call tip-to-trough). Throw it into a different gear to shift your teeth, then right into 1st. Basically, you will have to live with infrequent difficulties .

-2001 XJ Limited, 4.0L, NP231 w/ SYE, AW4, 4.5" Lift, 32" tires, 4.56's
-1987 XJ Pioneer, 4.0L, NP231 w/ SYE, NV3550, 4.5" lift, 4.10's, D44 rear
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post #13 of 13 Old 08-19-2005, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRYDE
I havent noticed the fluid level going down in the master cylinder, so lastnight I decided to try and bleed it. Its fairly awkward to get up in there, but when i managed to get a 9/16th wrech on the bleed vavle it would NOT move. I tried putting a 5/16th wrench on the smaller nut attatched to the line, but it would not budge. (i didnt want to force it too much and break it) Its fairly rusted, I dont think its ever been bled. Any ideas on how to make it open easier?
On the 89 I had just bleeding the clutch master cylinder helped Just remember it will run down on the wiring harness then into the fuse panel and will desolve it so take precautions

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