Lets try this again, nasty howl from the axle, wasnt there before it was "fixed" - JeepForum.com
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Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Cherokee & Comanche Forums > XJ Cherokee Technical Forum > Lets try this again, nasty howl from the axle, wasnt there before it was "fixed"

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Unread 04-06-2011, 05:13 AM   #1
95JeepFactory
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Lets try this again, nasty howl from the axle, wasnt there before it was "fixed"

1995 Cherokee Sport 4x4, auto trans, NP242, 4 door I6.

Had a bent drivers rear axle shaft, swapped out for one from a 92 Cherokee sport 2 dr manual 8.25 rear axle- Should be identical? After the swap there is now a loud howling noise that sounds like it is from the rear pumpkin when under load and when the trans downshifts coming to a stop.

As i remember the new axle shaft was slightly longer than the original but not by much.

I did the job by the book and it went off primarily without a hitch, pulled it apart again yesterday to try and diagnose the noise and found that the whole gear assembly shifts left to right about an 1/8 to 1/4 inch in either direction.

EVERYTHING is bolted in correctly and tightly and in the proper order as it was when it was pulled apart, THIS i made sure of while removing it the first and second times.

Things checked so far: Axle and gearing play being 1/8 to a 1/4 inch in either direction.
Trans fluid: appears to be low but no visible leaks (checked when warm and in neutral)

Transfer case has wetness by the lower plug-in for the electronics (no idea what it is called)


I am just about ready to pop the whole unit apart and throw the old axle shaft in to see if the noise goes away. Note the axle was bent bad enough to shake the Jeep from about speeds of 35 to an unbearable 60mph, 70+ it eased out and was bearable but still prevalent.
Truck jacked up and wheel spinning visible shimmy, as well as a follow along visual on the road. Swapping wheels side to side and front to back made NO difference.

From the rather endless researching i have done so far it is pointing to the bearing associated with the rear driveshaft. Why would that somehow fail sitting up in the air with no tension on the DS for 3 days?

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Unread 04-06-2011, 07:44 AM   #2
dcorn
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So your ring gear and carrier can move side to side 1/4"? That's definitely not a good sign, you're probably getting crazy gear whine from the ring/pinion contact being way off.

Did you pull the entire carrier out or just the c-clip when you pulled the axle?
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Unread 04-06-2011, 08:09 AM   #3
Timo_90xj
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I'm about 100% sure that because of the bent axle shaft your carrier bearings took a hit (pinion bearings could be gone too, as well as your R&P at this point), and they failed. You might've not noticed that with the old shaft because of the vibes and other rattling sounds it makes.

Putting in your old shaft will not cure the problem. If you have both bearing caps installed correctly, and none of the shims are missing, you should in no way have play like that in the carrier bearings - carrier bearings should have a slight amount of preload, no play at all. You're propably looking at complete gear setup & new bearings etc.. if that's the case, it' propably easier and cheaper to find a matching axle from JY..
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Unread 04-06-2011, 09:40 AM   #4
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X2 What Timo said.

If your Carrier has ANY play in it it's phuked.

If the axle shaft came from an identical axle it should NOT be a different length.

Agreed, swap out a whole JY axle and be done with it.
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Unread 04-06-2011, 10:00 AM   #5
Mighty Thor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XJH-007 View Post

Agreed, swap out a whole JY axle and be done with it.
Swap in an 8.8 and don't have any bent axles in the future.
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Unread 04-06-2011, 11:10 AM   #6
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If you bent the axle, you bent the carrier.

Take a level to the bottom of that side axle tube and you will see the curvature.

(trying to see if our jeep could fly were we? )
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Unread 04-06-2011, 12:48 PM   #7
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Wait, did you bend a single tube, a single shaft, or the whole thing?

/confused
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Unread 04-06-2011, 07:15 PM   #8
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OKAY:
Yes the jeep was airborne, it was dropped quite a few feet by a jerk lift operator in an NY impound lot. landed on that wheel, blew the tire, rear window on that side and bent the axle shaft.

The 1/4 inch in play may be alittle more than it is in all actuality, i had a friend who is a complete novice measure for me while i was in the latrine and he reported the 1/4 inch side to side play.

Holding a level to the axle housing we see no sign of warpage nor any other visible damage, In fact, the ONLY damage i have found to the axle shaft was right at the end of it where it peeks out of the shaft housing where it is bent. Sitting on level floor side by side to another axle shaft it is pronounced and bent right at the bottom.

Does the consensus feel that replacing the axle bearings is a good idea? I really dont have the money rightnow to swap in a new axle or buy the entire carrier. Also the jeep is my DD until my next paycheck where i will be getting a Grand Prix to use as a summer DD.
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Unread 04-06-2011, 07:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
So your ring gear and carrier can move side to side 1/4"? That's definitely not a good sign, you're probably getting crazy gear whine from the ring/pinion contact being way off.

Did you pull the entire carrier out or just the c-clip when you pulled the axle?
Just pulled the C Clip and that threaded disc thing and had a hell of a time getting it back in right. The bearing that from what i can see it rests against wanted to push it back everytime i tried to screw it in more.
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Unread 04-07-2011, 12:48 AM   #10
95JeepFactory
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Just had a thought:

The axle shaft i got at the scrapyard was from a 92 2 wheel drive manual trans Cherokee and i THINK it had the 6cyl. Is it possible that the howling is because the axle might have had different gearing? IIRC there was some differences in the rear gearing depending on the engine/trans setups.
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Unread 04-07-2011, 01:04 AM   #11
95JeepFactory
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ahhh crap i think i got the wrong axle shaft GRRRR

[Quote] Gearing

3.07 - used with 4.0L engine / manual transmission --- The kind of Cherokee the axle shaft came from

3.55 - used with 4.0L engine / automatic transmission --- The kind of drivetrain i have in my cherokee.
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Unread 04-07-2011, 01:49 AM   #12
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ding ding ding
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Unread 04-07-2011, 01:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scavok View Post
ding ding ding
I laughed at that one. Lesson learned here: Even when in haste take the time to verify the proper parts BEFORE you get them.

Now i am in a predicament, drive the truck until Friday when i get paid and go get another axle shaft or see if they will just let me trade at the yard. I am there enough that they recognize me and let me ride on the equipment when picking up cars...
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Unread 04-07-2011, 03:45 AM   #14
Timo_90xj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95JeepFactory View Post
ahhh crap i think i got the wrong axle shaft GRRRR

Quote:
Gearing

3.07 - used with 4.0L engine / manual transmission --- The kind of Cherokee the axle shaft came from

3.55 - used with 4.0L engine / automatic transmission --- The kind of drivetrain i have in my cherokee.
Ok, now let's think about this whole thing once more:

1. If you're replacing just the axle shaft, the only thing you need to look is that the axle shaft comes from a similar axle and from the correct side.

2. It does NOT matter at all what gearing the donor axle has, since you are not changing the carrier and the gears. You can use 3.07 gearing or you can use 4.88 gearing, the axle SHAFTS are still exactly the same.

Are you really talking about play in the carrier bearings? I mean, you can move the carrier (to which the big ring gear is bolted to) side-to-side? Or are we talking about just the axle shaft that moves side-to-side? If it is only the axle shaft, and not the carrier, this is completely normal on C-clip axles! They have about 1/8" of side-to-side play.

Then again, gear howl usually means bad carrier and/or pinion bearings, which in turn eats your R&P set pretty quickly. If this is the case, you will need to do what was mentioned before: either buy a complete R&P set + master overhaul kit, and have the gears installed (= a lot of $$$). Or get a JY axle that has the same gearing as yours.

Now, I say it again - since you did NOT replace the carrier, only one axle shaft it does not matter it came out of an axle that had different gearing. Your axle bearing propably took a hit too, check the bearing at the end of the axle housing and look for up-down- play in it. It will also cause a howling/ grinding noise at speed if it's damaged. But if you still have the gear howl? Sorry mate, you're looking at another trip to the JY and start looking for a donor axle...
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http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/d...s-etc-1222317/


1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
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Unread 04-07-2011, 08:15 AM   #15
95JeepFactory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo_90xj View Post
Ok, now let's think about this whole thing once more:

1. If you're replacing just the axle shaft, the only thing you need to look is that the axle shaft comes from a similar axle and from the correct side.

2. It does NOT matter at all what gearing the donor axle has, since you are not changing the carrier and the gears. You can use 3.07 gearing or you can use 4.88 gearing, the axle SHAFTS are still exactly the same.

Are you really talking about play in the carrier bearings? I mean, you can move the carrier (to which the big ring gear is bolted to) side-to-side? Or are we talking about just the axle shaft that moves side-to-side? If it is only the axle shaft, and not the carrier, this is completely normal on C-clip axles! They have about 1/8" of side-to-side play.

Then again, gear howl usually means bad carrier and/or pinion bearings, which in turn eats your R&P set pretty quickly. If this is the case, you will need to do what was mentioned before: either buy a complete R&P set + master overhaul kit, and have the gears installed (= a lot of $$$). Or get a JY axle that has the same gearing as yours.

Now, I say it again - since you did NOT replace the carrier, only one axle shaft it does not matter it came out of an axle that had different gearing. Your axle bearing propably took a hit too, check the bearing at the end of the axle housing and look for up-down- play in it. It will also cause a howling/ grinding noise at speed if it's damaged. But if you still have the gear howl? Sorry mate, you're looking at another trip to the JY and start looking for a donor axle...
The axles themselves have some play, so taht is typical, the whole gearing unit in the pumpkin can move side to side aswell though. I can rebuild an engine, wire the truck and build a new computer for the truck but i just dont understand axle gearing
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