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Unread 03-12-2014, 09:44 PM   #1
who_datjeep
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The Last Straw

All,

My 2001 Cherokee has not started since December of 2013. I got the "No Bus" indication on the odometer screen, and I replaced the CPS or crankshaft position sensor. I purchased the CPS from the Jeep dealer, so I know it's a quality part. I replaced it, connected it, and cranked it.

Still "No Bus", still crank, still no start.

I purchased a remanufactured PCM that was programmed to my VIN. I installed it, still doesn't start, but when I cranked it, the gauges went back to normal. As soon as I turn the key to "run" the next time, "No Bus" until I crank it.

The starter went out and I had to replace it. The Cherokee cranks now, but it still doesn't start.

I checked for spark, there is spark. I checked for fuel, I don't have a gauge, but fuel sprayed out of the fuel rail test port when I opened it. When I turn the key to run, the fuel pump tries to prime and then start over and re-prime over and over again and doesn't stop. I put some HEET water remover and added more gas to mix it up, still no difference.

The two relays in the PDC (power distribution center) that are for the ASD and Cooling Fan buzz continuously. I bought two new relays today and installed them with the same problem. The EVAP purge solenoid is constantly pulsing.

I checked that the instrument cluster is tight, and it is. I've seen that a loose instrument cluster can cause a No Bus issue.

I don't know what to do. I replace so many parts on this Cherokee and more things end up falling apart. This is The Last Straw.

If anybody can help me, I would appreciate it. I would really like to get this Cherokee running, and it needs to get inspected in April.

Thanks,
Kevin

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Unread 03-12-2014, 09:57 PM   #2
dmill89
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It is most likely a wiring issue somewhere (likely somewhere in the wiring between the PCM and cluster or to the CPS) could also be an issue with the "sentry" key system if your vehicle is equipped with this (the key will have a thick grey head, and has an RFID type chip in it). This may be one case where it makes sense to take it to a dealer for diagnosis, paying for them to hook it up to the DRB-III (a Chrysler specific scan tool that allows for a much more in-depth diagnosis than a standard OBDII reader) is probably cheaper than just "throwing parts at it" (note: you don't necessarily have to have them fix it, you can just pay for the diagnosis and fix it yourself based on the results if you want).

This may help:
Quote:
NO: 08-15-99
SUBJECT: Erratic, Intermittent Cluster Operation/Intermittent Air Bag Warning light.
DATE: May 21, 1999
THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN NUMBER 08-20-98 REV. A, DATED OCTOBER 2, 1998, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES AND NOTED IN THE BOUND TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN BOOK, PUBLICATION NUMBER 81-699-99003. THIS IS A COMPLETE REVISION TO THE PROCEDURE.

OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves installing a repair harness containing a revised instrument cluster connector.

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
Some vehicles may exhibit an intermittent illumination of the air bag warning light or an intermittent tachometer or speedometer drop out. An Airbag Electronic Control Module (AECM) fault code -"No Cluster CCD BUS " message will be present.

DIAGNOSIS:
Using the DRB III?, read and record all active and stored fault codes in the AECM. This condition is caused by minor oxidation of the BUS circuit terminals at the instrument cluster connector. Electrical terminals will show signs of oxidation, which will appear as darkened lines or marks on the cluster male terminals. These often appear as gray or black marks rather than the appearance of oxidation or corrosion usually associated with higher current carrying circuits. This condition will set a "NO CLUSTER CCD BUS" message. The fault code will usually be stored and not active. THIS TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN WILL NOT ADDRESS FUEL OR OIL PRESSURE GAUGE ISSUES. If this fault code is present, either active or stored perform the Repair Procedure.

PARTS REQUIRED:
Qty Part No. Description
1 05016261AA Cluster Connector Patch Harness
1 04856975 Electric Contact Cleaner
2 04778570 Heat Shrink Tubing


REPAIR PROCEDURE:
THIS REPAIR IS COMPATIBLE WITH DAIMLERCHRYSLER'S MOBILE SERVICE PROGRAM AND DOES NOT REQUIRE HOISTS OR OTHER FULL SERVICE FACILITY SPECIAL EQUIPMENT.


Disconnect the negative battery cable.
Remove the instrument cluster using the procedures outlined in the appropriate servicemanual.
Inspect the male terminals of pins 1 & 2 on the instrument cluster connector labeled CNB (See Figure 1). The oxidation will appear as gray or black lines or marks on the terminals. If any signs of oxidation are present, remove them by gently scraping the terminals with a small flat bladed screw driver until the oxidation is gone. Use of a magnifying glass may be helpful (See Figure 2). Use caution when performing this operation. Do not apply excessive force to the terminals to avoid bending them or damaging the cluster or terminals. Do not use a sharp tool, knife or sand paper, which could remove the protective plating from the terminals. Do not use any cleaner other than p/n 04856975. Other chemical cleaners could damage the instrument cluster.
Clean the male terminals with Electrical Contact cleaner, p/n 04856975. Apply the cleaner sparingly holding the cluster with the connector facing down to avoid excessive amount of cleaner from entering the cluster.
Remove the green cluster connector from the bracket.
Using wire cutters, remove the instrument cluster harness connector from the harness. Remove only the connector containing the BUS circuit (See Figure 1). This connector is labeled CBA on the cluster. Cut the wires as close to the insulator as possible.
The new connector must be soldered onto the harness. This operation requires a technician who is skilled at soldering to avoid a cold solder joint. Position the harness and align the wires with the patch harness, matching the color codes match the main wire colors.
NOTE: THE XJ INSTRUMENT PANEL CONTAINS ONE MORE CIRCUIT IN THIS CONNECTOR THAN THE TJ. CUT THE UNUSED WIRE CLOSE TO THE CONNECTOR ON TJ MODELS.

Stagger cut the main harness and patch harness wires so that the solder joints will be 1/2 inch apart. Remove 1/2 inch of insulation from the wires. The new harness will have a dark blue with no tracer. This will mate with a dark blue wire with a green tracer on TJ and with a dark blue wire with a white tracer on XJ.
Slide a piece of heat shrink tubing over the wires and twist the wires together for each respective circuit.
Solder each circuit using rosin core solder. Be sure to heat the wire enough to allow the solder to melt when it comes in contact with wire. Do not use acid core solder.
Position the heat shrink tubing over the solder joints and shrink the tubing using a heat gun.
Install the connector to the bracket.
Install the instrument cluster.
Connect the battery cable.
Verify correct operation of the cluster.
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Unread 03-13-2014, 02:19 AM   #3
carnuck
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Try an ignition slider switch. You should be able to plug it in without taking the old one out. Look for melted spots (common if you have an improperly installed aftermarket stereo)

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Unread 03-13-2014, 08:51 AM   #4
who_datjeep
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Thanks dmill89 and carnuck!

How much does the diagnosis usually cost? I do have the Sentry Key system and the Sentry Key light is on. I've been having problems starting my Cherokee with the Sentry Key system because when it wouldn't start, the Sentry Key light was on. I don't think this makes a difference, but the wires going to the passenger side fog light are cut and bare wire is showing. This is just for the fog light wires, the main harness appears to be intact.

I could replace the cluster harness connector myself. Should I do this first? To bring the Cherokee to the dealer, I have to get a trailer and something to put it on there, plus turn it a ninety degree angle, since it is parked perpendicular to where the trailer would be able to sit.

I also saw a wire disconnected from the wiring harness under the steering column. I will attach a picture. Also, is it normal for there to be a million of those wires spliced?

Thanks,
Kevin
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Unread 03-13-2014, 08:59 AM   #5
who_datjeep
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carnuck,

What does the ignition slider do? Where is it?

Thanks,
Kevin
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Unread 03-13-2014, 09:01 AM   #6
CCKen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by who_datjeep View Post
All,

My 2001 Cherokee has not started since December of 2013. I got the "No Bus" indication on the odometer screen, and I replaced the CPS or crankshaft position sensor. I purchased the CPS from the Jeep dealer, so I know it's a quality part. I replaced it, connected it, and cranked it.

Still "No Bus", still crank, still no start.

I purchased a remanufactured PCM that was programmed to my VIN. I installed it, still doesn't start, but when I cranked it, the gauges went back to normal. As soon as I turn the key to "run" the next time, "No Bus" until I crank it.

The starter went out and I had to replace it. The Cherokee cranks now, but it still doesn't start.

I checked for spark, there is spark. I checked for fuel, I don't have a gauge, but fuel sprayed out of the fuel rail test port when I opened it. When I turn the key to run, the fuel pump tries to prime and then start over and re-prime over and over again and doesn't stop. I put some HEET water remover and added more gas to mix it up, still no difference.

I'm not familiar on how one would check for spark with a coil rail system. How did you determine you have spark?

Are you saying the fuel pump keeps running with the key to RUN?

The two relays in the PDC (power distribution center) that are for the ASD and Cooling Fan buzz continuously. I bought two new relays today and installed them with the same problem. The EVAP purge solenoid is constantly pulsing.

Does the EVAP Purge Solenoid keep pulsing with the key to OFF or when the key is to RUN?

I checked that the instrument cluster is tight, and it is. I've seen that a loose instrument cluster can cause a No Bus issue.

I don't know what to do. I replace so many parts on this Cherokee and more things end up falling apart. This is The Last Straw.

If anybody can help me, I would appreciate it. I would really like to get this Cherokee running, and it needs to get inspected in April.

Thanks,
Kevin
Has your Jeep ever been in deep water to the point the water has come up to the dash or covered the footwells, or have you power washed the engine bay?

The system faults (relays buzzing/solenoid pulsing, etc., may be attributed to a corrosion problem in the Junction Block, which is the hub of most, if not all, Start-Run bus controlled circuits. The ASD relay, Cooling Fan relay, fuel Pump relay, control coil circuits are all powered from Start-Run bus A21, which is powered when the key is turned to RUN. The EVAP Purge solenoid is also powered from the Start-Run bus (fuse 10 in the JB).

NO BUS can be caused by CCD Bus problems or poor ground connections in the engine bay. In that you get "when I cranked it, the gauges went back to normal. As soon as I turn the key to "run" the next time, "No Bus" until I crank it", it could be poor ground connections.

Generally, whenever XJ's have odd problems like yours it's a good idea to (disassemble) closely examine and clean the two primary grounds in the engine bay just to eliminate them from the equation, then if you still have no joy, move on to other troubleshooting.

Here's pics of the grounds:

G100. The main battery to chassis ground.



G101. The main ground for the PCM, TCM, and O2S heaters. Obviously you won't have a coil at this spot but the ground studs are there.



An alternate chassis to battery ground path is through the radio interence suppression bonding strap on the firewall. It's woth checking/cleaning.



Check/clean these grounds and get back with your results.
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Unread 03-13-2014, 09:28 AM   #7
who_datjeep
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Hey CCKen,

Thanks for helping! With the distributorless ignition system, I have a coil pack. I took the coil pack off, put a spark plug in one of the boots, and grounded the spark plug to the block. Cranked engine and there was spark.

The fuel pump does constantly run with the ignition set to on. I have uploaded a video of it to youtube:
The EVAP purge solenoid is pulsing only when key is set to Run.

I will clean and check the grounds and get back with the results.

Thanks,
Kevin
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Unread 03-13-2014, 10:07 AM   #8
CCKen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by who_datjeep View Post
Thanks dmill89 and carnuck!

How much does the diagnosis usually cost?

I do have the Sentry Key system and the Sentry Key light is on. I've been having problems starting my Cherokee with the Sentry Key system because when it wouldn't start, the Sentry Key light was on.

The SKIS light on the dash should come on for about three seconds when you turn the key to RUN, as a bulb test, then go off. If the light comes on and stays on after the bulb test, it indicates that the SKIM has detected a system malfunction and/or that the SKIS has become inoperative. If you replaced the PCM, it would need to be programmed to the SKIM and transponder key. Just another problem for you to address.

I don't think this makes a difference, but the wires going to the passenger side fog light are cut and bare wire is showing. This is just for the fog light wires, the main harness appears to be intact.

I could replace the cluster harness connector myself. Should I do this first? To bring the Cherokee to the dealer, I have to get a trailer and something to put it on there, plus turn it a ninety degree angle, since it is parked perpendicular to where the trailer would be able to sit.

I also saw a wire disconnected from the wiring harness under the steering column. I will attach a picture. Also, is it normal for there to be a million of those wires spliced?

Thanks,
Kevin
.
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Unread 03-13-2014, 10:16 AM   #9
who_datjeep
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Uh oh. How do I program the SKIM and transponder key?

Thanks,
Kevin
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Unread 03-13-2014, 10:20 AM   #10
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Getting back to cleaning your engine bay grounds:

I forgot to mention that you should remove your battery connectors and clean them as well.

After the wire ring terminals are disconnected, scrub them with a 3M #2 Scotch-Brite pad. At G100, use sandpaper to remove all rust n the inner fender, and wire wheel/brush the bolt clean before reinstalling. Use the Scotch-Brite pad to clean the other wire ring terminals as well.

Concerning the relays buzzing, being activated, and the EVAP solenoid running - the relay control coils and the EVAP solenoid are provided 12 volts from the JB but they require a ground path to the control coil from the PCM inorder to pull the power contacts in the relays closed and operate the EVAP solenoid.

All these relay control (ground) circuits, the EVAP solenoid, and the CCD Bus circuits go through PCM connector C3 (Gray connector). While you're working in the engine bay, you may want to remove the back cover off the C3connector and inspect for corrosion. Disconnect the battery ground cable then unplug C3 from the PCM and inspect the pin cavities in the connector for corrosion. I suspect there is a short (ground circuit) that is causing all the troublesome relays to be activated uncommanded.
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Unread 03-13-2014, 10:29 AM   #11
CCKen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by who_datjeep View Post
Uh oh. How do I program the SKIM and transponder key?

Thanks,
Kevin
You don't, the dealer does. But you may be in luck if that new PCM hasn't been programmed. You can disconnect the SKIM and drive to the dealer. Then, when you arrive at the dealer, you would reconnect the SKIM and have them program the system.

As a side bar, disconnect the SKIM and see if does anything for your other problems.

Pics:

You have to remove the upper and lower covers off the ignition switch to get at the SKIM.

Sentury Key Immobilizer Module (SKIM):



SKIM installation:



SKIM connector:

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Unread 03-13-2014, 11:26 AM   #12
CJ7-Tim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by who_datjeep View Post
The two relays in the PDC (power distribution center) that are for the ASD and Cooling Fan buzz continuously.
To me, this is the main goal of the troubleshooting, what is the root cause ? I would suspect a short circuit. The yellow wire taps and the crimp connector wire splices are not a good sign. Fix this issue first, and the other symptoms may clear up. The fuel pump should not run continuously, and may be related to the constantly buzzing relays.

There are 2 types of No-Bus: one where the engine runs just fine and a second where you have: it cranks but no-start. The second is most often a CPS or CPS wire circuit issue.

SKIM lets the motor start, but kills it after 2-4 seconds. If the SKIM light is on, you need to figure out why. If you buy a new PCM, disconnect the SKIM module or it will lock up your new PCM.
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Unread 03-13-2014, 03:29 PM   #13
who_datjeep
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Okay, thanks for the tips CCKen and CJ7-Tim,

I cleaned all the grounds and cleaned the wires and made sure the battery clamps were properly installed.

I disconnected the SKIM module, still no start. BUT, there is no longer "no bus". The fuel gauge works, though the needle moves a little bit. Of course, no oil pressure, and coolant is cold. Battery gauge shows completely empty, but when I crank it the needle goes even lower. There is sufficient power. The starter cranks good enough and the courtesy lights stay on when I crank.

The relays don't buzz anymore but they click intermittently with the EVAP purge solenoid. The fuel pump still runs continuously as shown in the video.

I took the back cover off the gray PCM connector and looked at all the wires, including C3. There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the wires.

As CJ7-Tim noted, I didn't think those wire taps and connectors were there on all Cherokees. The previous owner said he hooked up a stereo and then took it out.

Other than taking it to the dealer, what would be next?

Thanks,
Kevin
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Unread 03-13-2014, 03:46 PM   #14
dmill89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by who_datjeep View Post
Okay, thanks for the tips CCKen and CJ7-Tim,

I cleaned all the grounds and cleaned the wires and made sure the battery clamps were properly installed.

I disconnected the SKIM module, still no start. BUT, there is no longer "no bus". The fuel gauge works, though the needle moves a little bit. Of course, no oil pressure, and coolant is cold. Battery gauge shows completely empty, but when I crank it the needle goes even lower. There is sufficient power. The starter cranks good enough and the courtesy lights stay on when I crank.

The relays don't buzz anymore but they click intermittently with the EVAP purge solenoid. The fuel pump still runs continuously as shown in the video.

I took the back cover off the gray PCM connector and looked at all the wires, including C3. There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the wires.

As CJ7-Tim noted, I didn't think those wire taps and connectors were there on all Cherokees. The previous owner said he hooked up a stereo and then took it out.

Other than taking it to the dealer, what would be next?

Thanks,
Kevin
I'd probably start by finding where that brown wire crimped into the yellow wire goes to (or just bypassing it) it could go to some kind of kill-switch or aftermarket security system (if the wiring colors are the same as on my 95 the yellow wire is a "trigger" for the starter, or a signal wire for something that would prevent starting such as the NSS, my XJ had an aftermarket security system spliced into that wire when I got it, the system had been removed but the relay was left, the PO just wired the relay to a switched hot, not sure why they didn't just remove it completely). In general the taps and spliced in wires worry me a bit, if the PO was hacking up the wiring harness there it is hard to say what else they may have messed with.
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Unread 03-13-2014, 04:08 PM   #15
who_datjeep
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Great idea, dmill89.

I checked where the yellow wire goes and it goes from what I believe is the TCM(transmission control module) to a module on the left side of the steering column(see picture). Also, I did see a button which may have been a kill-switch and the wires were just cut off from it. See pictures.

Thanks,
Kevin
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