Installed adj uppers n lowers now steering probs, bumpsteer? Caster? - JeepForum.com
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Unread 07-01-2010, 03:01 PM   #1
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Installed adj uppers n lowers now steering probs, bumpsteer? Caster?

Well last night i started my project finnally, TNT adj uppers, RC adj lowers, Teraflex 1 1/4'' coil spacers, RC drop brackets and some brute force. Now when i drive it veers all over the place and i guess has bumpsteer? The wheel does not jerk but it goes left or right when i go ove r a bump in the road as well as goes left or right sometimes when i am on the brakes.



Everything is tight, i have a HD trac bar and drop bracket and the lowers/ upers are newish with good heims and bushings. Now two things....



1. I am not sure what the caster is right now but i put a degree wheel on the bottom of the front driveshaft u-joint and it says 10 degrees i think from what i rememeber.



2. When you look at the coil springs from the wheel well they are tilted towards the back, not straight up and down. The wheels look centered in the wheel well but who knows, they were like that before i did this work and thought this would take care of it. The factory bumpstop is near the rear of the coil,not in the middle.



Any ideas on what to do? I can attempt the alignment at my shop but i have no clue what the caster should be at 5.5-6''. It drives fine down the road at 40-50 mph unless i hit a bump or crest in the road....

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Unread 07-01-2010, 03:19 PM   #2
wil badger
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If you can post a front on picture of the axle to see the angle of your trackbar to your draglink would be a big help. You can't measure your caster by using the pinion angle. You can use it for reference if you are working on the front end but that's not were you want to take a measurement to just check it.
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Unread 07-01-2010, 03:22 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wil badger View Post
If you can post a front on picture of the axle to see the angle of your trackbar to your draglink would be a big help. You can't measure your caster by using the pinion angle. You can use it for reference if you are working on the front end but that's not were you want to take a measurement to just check it.
Well i am pretty sure it is nothe trac bar, i had it on there before this and it drove just fine, i have driven jeeps with a bad tb as well as off center axle and this does not feel like it.

I will try to take pics here tonight
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Unread 07-01-2010, 06:58 PM   #4
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It looks just like this kinda bent/ tilted back, but mine is with the wheel on and and on the ground...


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Seems to me maybe the lowers are not adjusted out far enough? And if i adjust them out more than i think the wheel will not be centered up front in the well? Should i use the 101'' wheel base rule and go from there?
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Unread 07-01-2010, 07:07 PM   #5
wil badger
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If your spring is bending back that far your arms are to short. One of the main causes to bump steer is the track bar and draglink not matching arcs through their movement. You might not have had bumpsteer before or might have but it was minimal. Now that you have added more lift this have changed. So now it might be more pronounced. Your caster could be off but that doesn't really lead to bump steer but death wobble. Think of a shopping cart with a bad front wheel. If the caster isn't correct the wheel will want to wonder.
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Unread 07-01-2010, 07:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wil badger View Post
If your spring is bending back that far your arms are to short. One of the main causes to bump steer is the track bar and draglink not matching arcs through their movement. You might not have had bumpsteer before or might have but it was minimal. Now that you have added more lift this have changed. So now it might be more pronounced. Your caster could be off but that doesn't really lead to bump steer but death wobble. Think of a shopping cart with a bad front wheel. If the caster isn't correct the wheel will want to wonder.
Makes sense, i guess you could say that the steering is squirelly (spelling) then, not much bumpsteerish. I think this is caster related wouldnt you think with my coil looking like that pic?

I just do not think that if i adj the lowers out that the wheels will sit right in the wheel well?
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Unread 07-01-2010, 07:12 PM   #7
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You need an alignment after the extra lift, but I am with Will on the bumpsteer. The caster can cause wandering too though.
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Unread 07-01-2010, 07:14 PM   #8
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The lower arms are generally used to put the axle where you need it, and then the uppers are used to set caster/pinion angle. Shortening the uppers will give better caster, and worse pinion angle.
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  2. Sold'99 WJ limited, 4.7L, 3" IRO lift. Bilstein shocks, JK rubicon wheels, 255/70/17's, carolina driveshaft, IRO adjustable control arms, IRO adjustable A-arm
  3. Sold '00 TJ, 4" lift, rusty's adjustable control arms, skyjacker shocks, rock krawler adj. trac-bar,rugged ridge SYE and RE driveshaft, soft 8's, 35" mud king xt's,XJ HP D30 w/aussie locker, 4:88 yukon gears, hella 500's, rock crusher diff covers
4. 04 Dodge ram 1500 quadcab, yes, it has a hemi.
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Unread 07-01-2010, 07:34 PM   #9
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Don't worry some much about having the axle centered or what you think is centered. It doesn't hurt to have it a bit forward. If your spring is bowing back like in the picture above and is starting to touch the upper spring pad/ post then you are clearly to far back. The spring should be coming straight down and be in a parallel line to the pad/post.

Go get an alignment from a reputable place. Most will give you a lifetime alignment anymore. Still wouldn't mind seeing a front on shot of what you have. It would help in determining if it could be bump steer. If your steering wheel is trying to turn as you go over a bump with one side of the vehicle it is most likely bump steer. If you are going down the road and hit a slight bump and the vehicle starts to slightly shake then your caster is off.
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Unread 07-01-2010, 07:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wil badger View Post
Don't worry some much about having the axle centered or what you think is centered. It doesn't hurt to have it a bit forward. If your spring is bowing back like in the picture above and is starting to touch the upper spring pad/ post then you are clearly to far back. The spring should be coming straight down and be in a parallel line to the pad/post.

Go get an alignment from a reputable place. Most will give you a lifetime alignment anymore. Still wouldn't mind seeing a front on shot of what you have. It would help in determining if it could be bump steer. If your steering wheel is trying to turn as you go over a bump with one side of the vehicle it is most likely bump steer. If you are going down the road and hit a slight bump and the vehicle starts to slightly shake then your caster is off.
I will def try and get you a pic tomorrow. As far as the bumpsteer i am pretty sure it is not, i have had it before on my old xj and this one. I think the caster is screwy.

I am however worried about th coil like you stated. But if i push it forward, when i flex i will be hitting my ARB bull bar and tearing up my tire... BUT i have been wanting to cut the corners off for awhile now for that reason so i guess no better time than now
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Unread 07-01-2010, 08:55 PM   #11
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Do you have a drop pitman arm installed? If you have a trackbar drop bracket, then you must use a drop pitman arm to get the angles of the drag link and trackbar somewhat close. I believe if you have one without the other, you get bumpsteer.
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Unread 07-02-2010, 03:59 PM   #12
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here are some pics. After looking at it today more closely i think i have to adjust my uppers to pull back the caster a lil bit. That should pull the coils back straight i beleive.


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Unread 07-02-2010, 04:29 PM   #13
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I would try shortening the uppers too. Can't really see the pinion angle in those, but you will have to find the sweet spot between caster/pinion angle to where it has no vibes, but steers correctly.
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  2. Sold'99 WJ limited, 4.7L, 3" IRO lift. Bilstein shocks, JK rubicon wheels, 255/70/17's, carolina driveshaft, IRO adjustable control arms, IRO adjustable A-arm
  3. Sold '00 TJ, 4" lift, rusty's adjustable control arms, skyjacker shocks, rock krawler adj. trac-bar,rugged ridge SYE and RE driveshaft, soft 8's, 35" mud king xt's,XJ HP D30 w/aussie locker, 4:88 yukon gears, hella 500's, rock crusher diff covers
4. 04 Dodge ram 1500 quadcab, yes, it has a hemi.
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Unread 07-02-2010, 04:33 PM   #14
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Ya your trackbar to draglink is fine or pretty close, so that can be ruled out for now. Since you are dragging the spring on the back side of the post you have to much negative caster. The picture you posted before is the complete opposite of what you have so really that was no help. You differently need to shorten the uppers. You will want to get an alignment to help wrangle in the correct caster. From there you can find the best balanced between caster and pinion angle.
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Unread 07-02-2010, 04:45 PM   #15
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Ok, well what you guys suggest i set the caster at with 5.5-6'' of lift? Thank you
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