How can you tell if the PS Pump of Box is bad? - JeepForum.com

 
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post #1 of 9 Old 06-25-2009, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
Magus2727
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1995 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Utah
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How can you tell if the PS Pump of Box is bad?

So I was about to get a new AGR pump last night but after reciving further light and knowledge I am wondering now if it might not be the steering box (or at least I want to rule it out all the way).

Is there a way to test the PS pump or the Box somewhat independently of each other to see if its one or the other? I don't want to drop $100 on a pump and then turn around and put $200 for a box.

Thanks!


NAXJA Member #2619

1995 Jeep Sport Cherokee 4x4 with an Auto and 4.0L
B&M Transmission Cooler and Autometer Tranny Temp Gauge, Ruff Stuff Diff Cover on D30.
Taraflex 1.5" BB (rear shackle only), HD Quadratec leaf springs, RE 3.5" front springs, OME Long shocks, JKS Adjustable Track Bar from K.O.R.
Daystar Control Arm Bushings, Bushwhacker Flairs, Rhino lining along bottom trim, AGR PS pump with Cooler & Filter.
Bored TB, APN Manifold, New Downpipe, Magnaflow High Flow Cat, Flowmaster Super 44.
Dual Oil Relocation Kit running two K&N301 size filters, Autometer Digital Cobalt Oil Temp and Oil Pressure Gauge.
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post #2 of 9 Old 06-25-2009, 05:06 PM
81cjkid
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What are the symptoms your having???
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post #3 of 9 Old 06-25-2009, 05:26 PM Thread Starter
Magus2727
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1995 XJ Cherokee 
 
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Location: Utah
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I am having no power steering at idle. normal speeds are fine and any thing over around 1000 rpm works fine. but when parking in a parking garage or any parking lot it takes a 3-4 point turn to park since I dont want to cruse into the spot at 15 mph...

I have drained the fluid and refilled about 4 times each time with a high quality synthetic fluid. The Reservoir is full and I have no leaks, sequels or any other nothing that any one part is bad.

I have stock tires on 235/75/r15 but have a set of 33x12.5 Baja Claws awaiting the arivle of rims, so I want to get this taken care of before the rims come. If its next to impossible to turn at idle speeds with stock tires I dont even want to think what it will be like it the Big & Wide tires on. Its also my Wife's DD so if I have a hard time she is having an even harder time.

The PS will work fine at first start up like when backing out of an under ground parking structure I parked in last night to see the new Transformers movie. It took a lot of effort and a 4-point parking maneuver to park but when coming out and I started it up I was able to smoothly turn the wheel and back out in one nice motion, but 3 miles down the road when turning a u-turn into my house it acted the same way.

It has this problem with both directions, It is not only effected when turning right or left.

Any insight you can provide would be awesome!

NAXJA Member #2619

1995 Jeep Sport Cherokee 4x4 with an Auto and 4.0L
B&M Transmission Cooler and Autometer Tranny Temp Gauge, Ruff Stuff Diff Cover on D30.
Taraflex 1.5" BB (rear shackle only), HD Quadratec leaf springs, RE 3.5" front springs, OME Long shocks, JKS Adjustable Track Bar from K.O.R.
Daystar Control Arm Bushings, Bushwhacker Flairs, Rhino lining along bottom trim, AGR PS pump with Cooler & Filter.
Bored TB, APN Manifold, New Downpipe, Magnaflow High Flow Cat, Flowmaster Super 44.
Dual Oil Relocation Kit running two K&N301 size filters, Autometer Digital Cobalt Oil Temp and Oil Pressure Gauge.
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post #4 of 9 Old 06-25-2009, 06:56 PM
BrunoS
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Location: South Bay Los Angeles, CA
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the steering unit is a heavy duty recirculating ball unit, not a rack and pinion. once built...they don't go bad, but need several hundred psi of pressure to operate correctly.

the simple problem you have is a worn out pump in which the fluid squeezes through worn pump seals, leaking internally.

since you've tried the flush and purge routine, the next step before replacement would be to again fully dump and give "lucas" brand heavy duty stop leak/power steering fluid a try, it might revive your internally worn unit and restore some inside seals so that the pump can resume pressure.

yours behaves erratically due to worn seals that get soft as the fluid warms up during driving, not unusual, and is typical with older things.

Newly Painted! Emerald Green '96 XJ 4x4 4.0 HO 5-spd
3" Lift + 31" Tires / D35 TracLok / NP231
Drilled out Stock Airbox / Gauge Cluster Upgrade
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post #5 of 9 Old 06-25-2009, 08:16 PM
toates89
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is your belt tight?
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post #6 of 9 Old 06-25-2009, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
Magus2727
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Yep the belt it tight, does not sequel when I turn on the AC and the AC works fine. I also had this problem before replacing my Manifold (which requires removing intake and the Power Steering pump with the belt....) and I still have it after wards, so I dont think its the belt and I also just replaced the belt last summer.

NAXJA Member #2619

1995 Jeep Sport Cherokee 4x4 with an Auto and 4.0L
B&M Transmission Cooler and Autometer Tranny Temp Gauge, Ruff Stuff Diff Cover on D30.
Taraflex 1.5" BB (rear shackle only), HD Quadratec leaf springs, RE 3.5" front springs, OME Long shocks, JKS Adjustable Track Bar from K.O.R.
Daystar Control Arm Bushings, Bushwhacker Flairs, Rhino lining along bottom trim, AGR PS pump with Cooler & Filter.
Bored TB, APN Manifold, New Downpipe, Magnaflow High Flow Cat, Flowmaster Super 44.
Dual Oil Relocation Kit running two K&N301 size filters, Autometer Digital Cobalt Oil Temp and Oil Pressure Gauge.
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post #7 of 9 Old 06-26-2009, 12:59 AM Thread Starter
Magus2727
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1995 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Utah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunoS View Post
the steering unit is a heavy duty recirculating ball unit, not a rack and pinion. once built...they don't go bad, but need several hundred psi of pressure to operate correctly.
So the box it self will vary rarely go bad, unless the seals go but then on the box there would be visible leaking right.

So with doing some searching it looks like people swap out the box with a Dodge box way more often (or at least have more questions) then replacing the Pump. I understand the reson behind this but if higher pressure makes any box work better, why not replace the Pump with a PSC or an AGR? Since it looks like the Stock XJ box works better with Hydro assist then the Durango's it seams odd that people would spend equal if not more on a box then a pump...

With the seals in the pump will running a cooler keep the seals and the pump lasting longer (I guess I already know the answer just wanting to know if I am thinking strait)?

Are there PS flid filters, IIRC its not recomended since its on the return line (low pressure) and could cause a shortage of fluid to be seen by the pump and it would have moments of dry pumping during sudden hard movements of the box (but isent the pump always pumping fluid through the box? It does not have a clutch style pulley like the AC unit)

NAXJA Member #2619

1995 Jeep Sport Cherokee 4x4 with an Auto and 4.0L
B&M Transmission Cooler and Autometer Tranny Temp Gauge, Ruff Stuff Diff Cover on D30.
Taraflex 1.5" BB (rear shackle only), HD Quadratec leaf springs, RE 3.5" front springs, OME Long shocks, JKS Adjustable Track Bar from K.O.R.
Daystar Control Arm Bushings, Bushwhacker Flairs, Rhino lining along bottom trim, AGR PS pump with Cooler & Filter.
Bored TB, APN Manifold, New Downpipe, Magnaflow High Flow Cat, Flowmaster Super 44.
Dual Oil Relocation Kit running two K&N301 size filters, Autometer Digital Cobalt Oil Temp and Oil Pressure Gauge.
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post #8 of 9 Old 06-26-2009, 08:36 AM
81cjkid
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1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: poway,ca
Posts: 21
Yea I really wouldn't be conserned about the box, they rarely go out. Sounds like your pumps going out.
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post #9 of 9 Old 06-26-2009, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
Magus2727
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,683
So I have a new AGR pump on its way with a PSC Cooler (like the B&M) and new pressure and return lines.

Is there any thing I should do to prep the box or a way to do a heavy duty cleaning (with out rebuild) so there is not crap that gets circulated when a pump with actual pressure gets installed? The Fluid I have been putting in has been clear and it still is coming out a dirty oil look (not as dark as the first few times but still maple syrup color) should I keep filling and draining until it is at least a light yellow?

Can I do a drain and fill like what a large number of people do with there Transmission? since I am getting new lines, I can cut and add length to the return line and have one in a bucket for waste and the other plugged and fill the reservoir while some one is turning the steering wheel? or does the pump, pump quick enough that I could not put the fluid in fast enough to replenish....

Any one know about Filter options or the lack there of for PS applications?


Edit:

does this seam like it would work for our Jeep's? Or since our Pumps don't use ATF it would not filter correctly...

Quote:
In line Filter
AMG performed power steering testing with an in-line filter a while back. For that test, they had to use a "transmission" in-line filter in lieu of a "power steering" in-line filter due to the HUMMER's high flow (GPM) requirements at higher RPM's. The "SP/FILTRAN" filter did a great job of "cleaning up" the power steering system even on brand new HUMMER H1's!!! Don't recall the part number, but believe it is the in-line "transmission" filter FORD uses on its export vehicles

NAXJA Member #2619

1995 Jeep Sport Cherokee 4x4 with an Auto and 4.0L
B&M Transmission Cooler and Autometer Tranny Temp Gauge, Ruff Stuff Diff Cover on D30.
Taraflex 1.5" BB (rear shackle only), HD Quadratec leaf springs, RE 3.5" front springs, OME Long shocks, JKS Adjustable Track Bar from K.O.R.
Daystar Control Arm Bushings, Bushwhacker Flairs, Rhino lining along bottom trim, AGR PS pump with Cooler & Filter.
Bored TB, APN Manifold, New Downpipe, Magnaflow High Flow Cat, Flowmaster Super 44.
Dual Oil Relocation Kit running two K&N301 size filters, Autometer Digital Cobalt Oil Temp and Oil Pressure Gauge.
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