Harmonic Balancer Squeak - JeepForum.com

 
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post #1 of 13 Old 10-16-2013, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
Luuca
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Harmonic Balancer Squeak

I have a 92 XJ 4.0 AUTO. When I got it, the engine was running, no squeaks.

I pulled the engine to replace the freeze plugs on the back side of the head and block - they were leaking. I replaced a leaking head gasket, new pan gasket, cap,rotors, wires, fresh oil and filter and NEW BELT.

Once i started it up, got the worst squeal evar. constant. Determined it was the old AC compressor. Got a junkyard AC compressor and about half the squeal went away.

tried to spray the belt down, still squealed. Checked the usual suspects and the idler was kinda crunchy, but spun freely. I replaced the idler, reinstalled the belt, still squeals.

Started it without the belt and intermittent squeaks sound like they are coming from the harmonic balancer.

My questions:

1. will a harmonic balancer that looks visually OK squeak like that if its bad and NOT under the belt load?

2. Can I remove the harmonic balancer with the radiator in?

3. Is it possibly the crankshaft race/bearing?


91 YJ "Alice" 2.5L, AX5, 2.5" OME 36Rs, Revolvers, 32" Yoko ATs, 4.10 D30/35 Aussie Lockers F/R Busted Knuckles YJOTM never
05 LJ Rubicon "Ghost"

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post #2 of 13 Old 10-16-2013, 08:48 PM
Paradise XJ
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1.) The HB can rub on the timing cover and squeal...but methinks it would be obvious that it was out of line. There are no moving parts on the HB to squeal. If it's actually the thing squealing then the two halves are separated so it's shot

2.) I removed my HB with the radiator in...do you mean for clearance?? If that's the question then yes. Depends on the puller tool you have, or get. Do everything from underneath. If you're lifted and don't have the rubber/plastic cowl/air dam it's a piece of cake.

3.) Anything's possible...but I'd say no. You're generally not going to get a squeal from the crank...have you checked your distributor to see if that's squealing? More common.

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post #3 of 13 Old 10-16-2013, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
Luuca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise XJ
1.) The HB can rub on the timing cover and squeal...but methinks it would be obvious that it was out of line. There are no moving parts on the HB to squeal. If it's actually the thing squealing then the two halves are separated so it's shot 2.) I removed my HB with the radiator in...do you mean for clearance?? If that's the question then yes. Depends on the puller tool you have, or get. Do everything from underneath. If you're lifted and don't have the rubber/plastic cowl/air dam it's a piece of cake. 3.) Anything's possible...but I'd say no. You're generally not going to get a squeal from the crank...have you checked your distributor to see if that's squealing? More common.
Thank you for the help.

My first XJ. Can you elaborate on the distributor more? I'm not 100% sure where the sound is emitting from. Need to get out my stethoscope now and try to find the source.

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post #4 of 13 Old 10-17-2013, 09:51 AM
Paradise XJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luuca View Post
Need to get out my stethoscope now and try to find the source.
Just a 3/8" or so hose (one end in ear, one end moving around) works well as a stethoscope (be careful with moving parts and getting too close to engine with your ear)

My distributor was shot, I thought it was my A/C compressor. It was actually more of a howl than a squeal. It was much more intermittent than this video when it started. The bearing on the dist shaft was shot...there isn't a rebuild kit for the distributor so I replaced the whole thing. Sound gone.


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post #5 of 13 Old 10-17-2013, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
Luuca
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Update: pro tip on the tube trick. Distributor. Pulled it and it was binding up and squeaking as I turned it by hand. Ordered a new one. Not my daily driver so all good. Hope this finally puts an end to the nickel and dime stuff on this XJ and let's me get the bumpers fabbed up and this thing sold. Posted via my pretentious iPhone.

91 YJ "Alice" 2.5L, AX5, 2.5" OME 36Rs, Revolvers, 32" Yoko ATs, 4.10 D30/35 Aussie Lockers F/R Busted Knuckles YJOTM never
05 LJ Rubicon "Ghost"

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post #6 of 13 Old 10-18-2013, 07:21 PM
jeff540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luuca View Post
Update: pro tip on the tube trick. Distributor. Pulled it and it was binding up and squeaking as I turned it by hand. Ordered a new one. Not my daily driver so all good. Hope this finally puts an end to the nickel and dime stuff on this XJ and let's me get the bumpers fabbed up and this thing sold. Posted via my pretentious iPhone.
good job finding the squeak,the harmonic balancer can ride-in and start scoring the timing cover,if that happens get it fixed fast,I know a fellow jeeper had to replace his engine because his wife kept driving it until the oil light came on,no oil pressure gauge.

how much was the new Distributor? where ya get it,I should check mine,it is getting up there in age like me.
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post #7 of 13 Old 10-21-2013, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
Luuca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff540
good job finding the squeak,the harmonic balancer can ride-in and start scoring the timing cover,if that happens get it fixed fast,I know a fellow jeeper had to replace his engine because his wife kept driving it until the oil light came on,no oil pressure gauge. how much was the new Distributor? where ya get it,I should check mine,it is getting up there in age like me.
Ok so new distrib is in. Still have a chirp that turns into an annoying squee-squee-squee when the engine warms up. I'm thinking water pump. The engine has 267k on it and as a recent purchase, I'm not sure when it was last replaced. It's not dribbling and with the belt off, it feels like it moves freely albeit a little drag. I used the hose again an the squee is loudest to the left I the water pump pulley but not 100% on if it is or isn't the water pump. I'm rehabbing this XJ to resell and with all I've done and fabbing the bumpers and work in nearing my hard stop of $3000.

Question; visually, the harmonic balancer bolt head an washer appears to be off center of the opening. I need to get under it with a light I make sure it's off, but it looks that way. If it is off center, is that normal? My YJs harmonic is dead on.

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91 YJ "Alice" 2.5L, AX5, 2.5" OME 36Rs, Revolvers, 32" Yoko ATs, 4.10 D30/35 Aussie Lockers F/R Busted Knuckles YJOTM never
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post #8 of 13 Old 11-03-2013, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
Luuca
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UPDATE:

Replaced
AC Compressor
Idler Pulley
Belt (2 times) 1 Autozone 1 Pep Boys
Water Pump
Tested Alternator under load for bearing issues - none noted

Still had constant squeak

Replaced the Harmonic Balancer

Squeak went away.
Let it get up to temp - still no squeak

Next day - Squeak is back

Tightened the crap out of the belt

Squeak is gone at idle, but comes back at any rpm over idle.

Question: Time for a Gatorback?

91 YJ "Alice" 2.5L, AX5, 2.5" OME 36Rs, Revolvers, 32" Yoko ATs, 4.10 D30/35 Aussie Lockers F/R Busted Knuckles YJOTM never
05 LJ Rubicon "Ghost"

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post #9 of 13 Old 11-03-2013, 11:29 PM
JeepJohn92
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Sir, that is a very fine looking engine you got yourself there. Im sold on the red and will begin painting before winter. Also a gator-back isnt a terrible idea. Check other pullys, at the moment my motor mounted fan pully is shot (still working) and needs replaced and its the more horrendous squeal ever.

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post #10 of 13 Old 11-04-2013, 05:15 PM
Rob K
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A real simple test is to mist the belt with water while running. If the sound changes the problem is with a pulley or belt. If the sound stays the same it is a bearing. If you don't have one you may want to get a belt tension gauge from Napa so you can set the tension properly. Use the gauge otherwise you'll end up like me with too tight of a belt and snap the shaft off the power steering pump when the bearings suddenly give out 3 hours from home. If you have the room you could use a straight edge to see if any of your pulleys are out of line.
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post #11 of 13 Old 11-05-2013, 01:12 PM
fourlow
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My HB failure started off with a squeak that I thought was from the AC pulley or a crappy old belt. I replaced the belt and cleaned all the pulley surfaces, tightened the belt back up and the squeak went away because the HB decided that it was time to completely slip off.

Current setup:
94 Xj 110,000 miles
Rustys Air Tube
JeepersandCreepers Bored out TB
GDI 3 core radiator
Flowkooler Water Pump

Suspension:
RE 3.5" (actual about 4 inches) 6030 SUPER-FLEX, RE1600 Adjustable Track Bar

Wheels/Tires:
Rock Crawler 152 Series, 3.75 Backspacing
31inch BFG MT's
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post #12 of 13 Old 11-05-2013, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
Luuca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob K
A real simple test is to mist the belt with water while running. If the sound changes the problem is with a pulley or belt. If the sound stays the same it is a bearing. If you don't have one you may want to get a belt tension gauge from Napa so you can set the tension properly. Use the gauge otherwise you'll end up like me with too tight of a belt and snap the shaft off the power steering pump when the bearings suddenly give out 3 hours from home. If you have the room you could use a straight edge to see if any of your pulleys are out of line.
I took off the belt and cleaned it with warm water and dawn dish soap. I had used WD-40 to test the belt and felt like it may have glazed the belt. Not only that, but I had driven with the bad squeak from the bad harmonic balancer for over a week and felt the belt may be bad and wanted to inspect it. I reinstalled it facing the opposite way after cleaning off all the pulleys and now I no longer have a squeak. For now.

Posted via my pretentious iPhone.

91 YJ "Alice" 2.5L, AX5, 2.5" OME 36Rs, Revolvers, 32" Yoko ATs, 4.10 D30/35 Aussie Lockers F/R Busted Knuckles YJOTM never
05 LJ Rubicon "Ghost"

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post #13 of 13 Old 12-03-2013, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
Luuca
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UPDATE: The power steering pulley was misaligned due to a bent mounting bracket. I used common washers to shim it out and back into alignment. Squeak has been gone for over a week.

91 YJ "Alice" 2.5L, AX5, 2.5" OME 36Rs, Revolvers, 32" Yoko ATs, 4.10 D30/35 Aussie Lockers F/R Busted Knuckles YJOTM never
05 LJ Rubicon "Ghost"

Luck Favours The Prepared
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