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post #1 of 15 Old 07-02-2017, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
cl700
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Hack and tap sye?

How strong is the hack and tap sye? Really want to get rid of the slip yoke in my rig but can't really afford the full sye kits at the moment. So should I wait and save up or just do the hack and tap and replace later? I'm running 3.5 inches of lift and 31's at the moment. TIA


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post #2 of 15 Old 07-02-2017, 05:08 PM
CJ7-Tim
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The H&T SYE is just as strong as the stock set-up. Most problems with the H&T SYE are from sloppy workmanship when installing.

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post #3 of 15 Old 07-02-2017, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CJ7-Tim View Post
The H&T SYE is just as strong as the stock set-up. Most problems with the H&T SYE are from sloppy workmanship when installing.


What do you mean by the same as a the stock stock set up?


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post #4 of 15 Old 07-02-2017, 05:43 PM
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An SYE solves the problem of excessive drive-line angles from suspension lifts that have the potential to damage the transfer case and/or the rear axle. A H&T SYE does not reduce the strength or reliability of the transfer case.

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post #5 of 15 Old 07-02-2017, 10:59 PM
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Wait and save up. $200 for a standard SYE that will actually strengthen your Tcase is money well spent....and not that much more than a H&T.
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post #6 of 15 Old 07-03-2017, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cl700 View Post
How strong is the hack and tap sye? Really want to get rid of the slip yoke in my rig but can't really afford the full sye kits at the moment.
I have a hack 'n tap SYE behind my ZJ 5.9 that has aftermarket aluminum heads, more aggressive cam and a few other performance mods done to it (300+ horses and ~380 torque), it weighs 5100lbs. with a full tank of gas + me. 4.56 gears, 33" tires, front & rear lockers and a heavy foot on the skinny pedal.

My TC has the ZJ 5.9- original 249 front case half, input gear and input planetary; all the other parts on it are 242 internals, 242 rear half/ tail cone, and the hack 'n tap SYE on the main shaft are sourced from my 1990 XJ that at the time of disassembly had ~190k miles on it, having been wheeled for three years on the XJ with 35s, and now behind my ZJ for the past 5+ years.

During the time it has been attached to my ZJ, I've broken three front R&P sets, four OEM front CV- style shafts, one U-joint style alloy shaft, one Eaton eLocker, completely destroyed two rear driveshafts (the first DS also destroyed the pinion bearings from the D44a), and I've bent the flange on the other of my OEM Spicer rear axle shafts.


Hack 'n tap SYE and TC main shaft are still in good condition.
For the price I paid for the hack 'n tap SYE in 2008, I really think it has been a good investemnt. ..and I really don't care if it blew the next time I go wheeling with my Jeep. If it has held all the abuse for this long, it's already done it's job way better than expected

1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 LX daily driver, 1.75" BB, 32" KM2s, HPD30 Eaton e-locker/D44a stock LSD, 4.56 gears, custom- fabbed tube bumpers and tube fenders,...


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1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
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post #7 of 15 Old 08-09-2017, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7-Tim View Post
The H&T SYE is just as strong as the stock set-up. Most problems with the H&T SYE are from sloppy workmanship when installing.
I agree with this. Though technically, drilling the end of the output shaft for a bolt will make the output shaft weaker, realistically it is about the same strength as stock.

The main disadvantage of the hack and tap style SYE is in the design and the ability for the user to accurately modify the stock transfer case parts. The Hack and Tap does not shorten up the output of the transfer case by much. This means there is still a lot of overhung load and leverage on the back of the transfer case. This can bend the output shaft or cause premature wear of the rear output bearing. Additionally, with the hack and tap SYE usually results in the output yoke being a little bit wonky. This can cause high speed drive shaft vibrations. Since the reason to do the SYE in the first place is usually to alleviate vibration issues, I thing that the hack and tap is an unwise shortcut. Especially for the 231 transfer case, there are so many Slip Yoke Eliminator kits available for the 231 and the price is really not that much more than the hack and tap kit.

Shawn Wood at Tom Wood's Custom Drive Shafts.
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post #8 of 15 Old 08-10-2017, 03:15 PM
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Another problem the Op might have is lift. IE 3.5 lift. I think HnT have to have 4.5 lift. My rear is suppose to be 4.5 lift. Its more like 5.5 lift. RC springs. I also have the Chry8.25. So the nose of it is a bit longer than the Dana 35. The OP could take off his rear drive shaft and measure from the center of the rear yoke to about 1-1/8 worth of spline on the transfer case. 1-1/8 is the min. I want to say subtract 1/2 from that. Then see if the front drive shaft would work out for you as a HnT drive shaft. I think the manual front drive shafts might be shorter than the autos.
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post #9 of 15 Old 08-10-2017, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 75SV1 View Post
Another problem the Op might have is lift. IE 3.5 lift. I think HnT have to have 4.5 lift.
Why?

I've had two XJs, from 3" to 4" lift, 4.0 + AW4 + 242 (which is about 1" longer than 231 so the rear DS needs to be shorter) + Ford 8.8 - both with hack 'n tap SYE and a stock 4.0 AW4 front DS without any issues.
Even if the rear DS length was too short for a stock front double cardan joint front DS to fit in there, you can have it shortened to your specifications - or order a new DS from a driveline shop.


..oh.. that very same front DS from a 1990 XJ is still in use as my ZJ front DS Just recently it has started developing a bit of play on the DS slip joint. Too bad these OEM Jeep driveshafts are so bad.. it's only 27 years old, has only ~300k miles on it and the u-joints and centering yoke have been changed once (back in 2008)

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1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
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post #10 of 15 Old 08-10-2017, 11:04 PM
un4gvn1
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I went with this H&T for a few reasons. IRO Hack&Tap

1. Cheap
2. Strong
3. Ability to run OE front driveline on both ends (carry one spare instead of two)

I haven't "wheeled the crap" out of the rig since this went in, but we've had some pretty good trips, both mud & rocks. No complaints so far & IRO is a joy to do business with, fast shipping & great customer service.

Working with cars is a little like a really awesome date: you start out expecting this to be something simple and straightforward; four hours later you're laying under her, panting and cursing, and things are a lot more complicated than you thought.

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post #11 of 15 Old 08-11-2017, 09:42 AM
75SV1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo_90xj View Post
Why?

I've had two XJs, from 3" to 4" lift, 4.0 + AW4 + 242 (which is about 1" longer than 231 so the rear DS needs to be shorter) + Ford 8.8 - both with hack 'n tap SYE and a stock 4.0 AW4 front DS without any issues.
Even if the rear DS length was too short for a stock front double cardan joint front DS to fit in there, you can have it shortened to your specifications - or order a new DS from a driveline shop.


..oh.. that very same front DS from a 1990 XJ is still in use as my ZJ front DS Just recently it has started developing a bit of play on the DS slip joint. Too bad these OEM Jeep driveshafts are so bad.. it's only 27 years old, has only ~300k miles on it and the u-joints and centering yoke have been changed once (back in 2008)
I did reread the IRO website. They mention 4.5 lift etc. I had to squeeze mine in. I did not install my lift. But the wheels look centered. So, now I have questions as to the install of my lift. I am going with a Ford 8.8 soon, so I'll have that to deal with. If they work for you on a 3.5 lift, then I stand corrected.
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post #12 of 15 Old 08-11-2017, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 75SV1 View Post
I did reread the IRO website. They mention 4.5 lift etc. I had to squeeze mine in. I did not install my lift. But the wheels look centered. So, now I have questions as to the install of my lift. I am going with a Ford 8.8 soon, so I'll have that to deal with. If they work for you on a 3.5 lift, then I stand corrected.
I assume their mention of 4 1/2" lift has more to do with the amount of lift that can't be corrected with a t-case drop to cure d/l vibs. I don't think you'd bottom the spline on the driveline with 3" of lift, the compressed driveline length between a 3" lift and a 4.5" lift is going to be damn near the same.

Have you asked 'em?

Working with cars is a little like a really awesome date: you start out expecting this to be something simple and straightforward; four hours later you're laying under her, panting and cursing, and things are a lot more complicated than you thought.

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post #13 of 15 Old 08-11-2017, 04:38 PM
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Lets call the IRO Hack and Tap SYE ( H&T ) a yoke type H&T, as opposed to the Rubicon Express flange type H&T SYE.


Since the Jeep 231 and 242 transfer case rear output shaft is only case hardened, and it already has a pilot hole drilled into the end of the output shaft, and the overhang load is not increased, a H&T SYE does not change the strength or durability of the transfer case. A properly installed H&T SYE and properly shimmed axle will not cause driveline vibrations.


IRO does not specifically say that a certain amount of lift is required to use a yoke type H&T, but if using the yoke type H&T at about 3 inches of lift, you may have to shorten the H&T yoke overall length slightly. Even so, I recommend that at about 3 or more of lift, an SYE is strongly advised. I have installed an RE flange type H&T and several yoke type H&T. For the XJ Cherokee we are not looking for a longer rear driveshaft like TJ Wrangler owners are, we are simply looking for a solution to suspension lift induced drive line vibes by using a double cardan drive shaft. A front XJ Cherokee driveshaft usually fits without modification at about 3-4 inches of lift, and fits for sure with 4.5 or more inches of lift. As a bonus, with the yoke type H&T, a spare stock driveshaft fits front or rear. Naturally, some combinations of Cherokee lift and drive line components may not allow an unaltered drive shaft to be used with a yoke type H&T. The RE flange H&T requires a matching yoke to be installed onto the double cardan joint, and as a consequence one cannot have a single driveshaft be the only spare. I do not recommend the RE flange type H&T because it is more difficult and more expensive to install, and provides no additional benefits not found in a yoke style H&T.


If you install an SYE and need a new driveshaft there is nothing better than a Tom Woods driveshaft, and as a bonus Tom Woods supports many 4x4 groups and organizations with donations.


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Originally Posted by Ronald W. Reagan: Government is not the solution to our problems; Government is the problem.
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post #14 of 15 Old 08-12-2017, 04:20 PM
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I have an RC 4.5 inch lift and a 1" tc drop and no problems yet.. Although i am going to do a H&T.
Have not done any serious 4x4 yet though.
The IRO is what i am going with.
Not that i have any vibes, i just want to be able to have an extra shaft, and make sure i dont bottom the shaft out.
Right now my slip yoke only came out about 3/8ths of an inch.
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post #15 of 15 Old 08-13-2017, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by un4gvn1 View Post
I assume their mention of 4 1/2" lift has more to do with the amount of lift that can't be corrected with a t-case drop to cure d/l vibs. I don't think you'd bottom the spline on the driveline with 3" of lift, the compressed driveline length between a 3" lift and a 4.5" lift is going to be damn near the same.

Have you asked 'em?
I did not ask them. I can only go by my 'one' experience. Cj7 and Timo have a bunch more experience than I do on lifts and probably otherwise Jeep wise. The add does read as to take care of vibe problems for 4.5 lifts and up. I do have a C8-1/4 rear end. I think it has a bit longer snout that the D35. Beyond that, the 'upgrade' did seem to take care of a vibe problem on acceleration. I have only driven Hiway miles with this setup. OK, I was in the ditch in WV once. I did have to shorten the yoke in my application. Just the body and up to the spline section. I did not have problems tapping the shaft. I used a new tap. I think it was from True Value. I would recommendd something like OSG or Viking brands.
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