[hubs97xj]

x2 on Fitch's write ups.

Kurt, do you have factory fog lights?

[Morris4x4Center]

The Fitch article is great, but a little misleading. On a standard relay, 87 and 87a are NOT the same. 87a is connected to 30 when the relay is "off", 87 is connected when the relay is "on". If you connect this way with a standard single pole double throw relay, the driver's side high and low beam will be on when the lights are NOT on. When the low beams are engaged, the passenger side low will come on and the driver's side low will cut off. Same will happen when the high beams are engaged.

To make this work, you will have to use a single pole, single throw relay with dual outputs. These are not common, but they do exist. These relays will have two 87's.

Here is an example...

http://www.delcity.net/store/Normally-Open-Relay-w:-Dual-87-Contacts/p_791795.a_1

[KurT5]

hubs. i DID have the factory fogs. the wires are still there haha but one went smash so the otherone i took off. The wires are still there though why? whats good?

[SkinnyMe97]

On a relay, 87 and 87a are NOT the same.

They are the same if your using a single poll double through relay , sounds like you used a single poll single through relay when you wired yours .

[Morris4x4Center]

Originally Posted by SkinnyMe97

They are the same if your using a single poll double through relay , sounds like you used a single poll single through relay when you wired yours .

Actually, just the opposite. A single pole, double throw relay, is what a standard "Bosch" type relay is. It means that there is one common terminal (single pole) that alternates it's connection between two other terminals (double throw). It makes one connection (87a) at rest and the other (87) when the relay is powered up. A single pole, single throw relay only has 4 terminals, there is no 87a.

Some companies do make relays with two 87's. I just want to be clear that the "normal" off the shelf automotive (Bosch style) relay has been standard for a very long time. It has always been a 5 terminal (SPDT) where 87a is connected to 30 when the relay is off, or a 4 terminal (SPST) where there is no 87a.

Here is a great relay 101 article.

http://www.bcae1.com/relays.htm

I also read the Fitch relay article. He is showing a single pole, single throw (SPST) relay with "dual" outputs (two 87's). You can get one here
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C83SH2/?ie=UTF8&me=A2AEHRG1HZ45TI
Just be careful that you are getting the correct one for the application.

[SkinnyMe97]

Standard Auto Parts art #RY100 EXACT same relay Fitch used wired the EXACT same way he shows in his diagram . Works great !

[Morris4x4Center]

Yes, that relay will work. Here it is at Amazon.
Amazon.com: Standard Motor Products Relay: Remartautoparts
Please note that there are TWO 87's and NO 87a. Once again, just be sure you are using the correct relay for the application.

[SkinnyMe97]

Not trying to be an *** but if you use the relay Fitch suggests then his diagram is correct . Ofcourse the opposite is true , if you use a different relay then it would be wrong . There are many ways to wire this using many different styles of relays .

[Morris4x4Center]

No where in his article does he give a part number. (the other article references a NAPA number) He gives a link to a site with MANY different relays, none of which have the part number you used. The one you used and the one I gave a link to WILL work. He also calls it a DPST, which it is NOT. It IS a SPST with dual outputs. He also shows an 87a, which is incorrect. Once again, the article is awsome, just not clear for a novice running to their local store to get the parts.

[Mickey_D]

Originally Posted by KurT5

is there any typical auto store such as advanced or autobone that would carry these? i hate ordering stuff cause im impatient or would you recomend making my own like go-jeep. now that i nkow it can work im just lookin to see what option is my better bet. im not slow but im not a wiz so making my own would be difficult. but if gathering material and making my own would either be cheaper or take less time than ordering it and shipping it an blah blah blah i can do it. opinions?

I made my own upgrade looms. I can honestly say with 100% clarity that there is no way you are going to beat the price for ordering one. $19 for the complete plug-n-play is a steal.

I think I was close to $35 and I already had the relays (wrecking yards are wonderful sources for them, they fit in almost any pocket ). Hell, the wire alone can be $10 a roll, and you need 3 of them!!

Originally Posted by 99XJer

ok well call arb and ask them what they think thats what they told me and hubs to a chill pill dude sorry for breaking your laws this is what i was told by ARB them selves talk to matt

Then I would have to say Matt at ARB didn't read the article posted in the 1st post. Headlights are DESIGNED to run at full battery voltage (13.5V - 14.1V). Running them at a lower voltage (12.1V or lower which XJ's do from the factory) will do more harm. And considering a sealed beam headlight is $10, but increased insurance premiums are considerably more from when you don't see something because your headlights were as effective as a AA Maglite, the possibility burning of a headlight out once every 5 years or so is the cheaper alternative.

[SkinnyMe97]

The part # I used was cross refenced to the NAPA part # Parts Plus. A DPST relay IS a dual output relay 2 poles that are power on when the relay is activate by 1 trigger . The link in Fitch's article used to take you directly to the part it was referenced to . I could send you a picture of my relays if you like , they have 87 & 87a both clearly marked .

[Morris4x4Center]

A true DPST relay has two completely seperate "circuits" which are controlled by one trigger, not one circuit (#30 terminal) with two identical outputs. Here is a quote from the relay article I referenced earlier. "This is a Double Pole Single Throw relay. When the relay coil is energized, two separate and electrically isolated sets of contacts are pulled down to make contact with their stationary counterparts. There is no complete circuit path when the relay is DEenergized." The diagrams do a much better job explaining the differences than I can with words, I suggest anyone who wants a relay 101 lesson check it out.

Once again, I am not trying to argue, just trying to help our fellow Jeepers. You are 100% correct in the way that your relay works.

[Boodyrider]

Originally Posted by 99XJer

The harness will cause premature failure (lights burn out) but you can try it

The harness did not cause your early failure. the Fatboys did, and will. ALL high output bulbs have a shorter life than standard halogen bulbs, especially overamp bulbs like the fatboy.

A better harness with greater current capacity and less voltage drop will improve light output, and the greater output MAY result in very slight shorter life... but that's the price of more light output. In return, the better harness will run cooler, and require LESS amperage draw to produce the same wattage output.

[hubs97xj]

Additionally, if he had factory fogs, he was likely burning both filaments at the same time, and that will definitely kill bulbs quickly.

Kurt, I know it's on here a few places, but there's a simple mod to the fog relay- afermarket harnesses and the OE fog ckt don't play nice. I'll post one of the links when I find it. If you don't have the fogs connected, this might not be an issue. I don't have them, so this didn't affect me, but it's stumped a lot of folks when upgrading lighting.

Bypassing the factory wiring altogether, using the stock switch.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/fog-light-wiring-upgrade-653022/

GetaHelmet- Fog Light relay conversion
http://www.getahelmet.com/jeeps/tech/fogrelay/
XJ specific notes
Mod Performed on 2000 Jeep Cherokee with Factory fog lights.
(I believe this mod will work on all 1997 to 2001 Jeep Cherokees in the same manner.)
1. Locate fuse and relay box on passenger side of engine compartment.
2. Remove cover locate and pull out Fog Light Relay 1.
3. Bend tab #2 back as shown in picture below.
4. Reinsert relay, and enjoy the ability to run your fogs with your high beams.

Note: If you bend tab #2 on Fog Light Relay 2 you will lose your fogs altogether.

Tangential- the relay used in Fitch's writeup, and a good choice for lighting, I think.
http://www.delcity.net/store/Normally-Open-Relay-w:-Dual-87-Contacts/p_791795.a_1
I believe it's technically a SPST with dual NO 87 terminals. Hence "specialty" relay. More than a few folks have decided any old relay would work, and had alternating or nonfunctioning lights. Attention to detail... suffers from inattentiveness.

There are some other articles/threads on modifying the wiring, or bypassing it altogether. Google "Jeep foglight relay high beams" or variations on that, and you should find more info than you'll need.

[SkinnyMe97]

Once again, I am not trying to argue, just trying to help our fellow Jeepers

I agree , just trying to provide as much information as I can without confusing anyone . I didn't know anything about a double circuit in a relay so you taught me something new . Cheers !