Gauges, odometer, radio, dome lights all inop - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Cherokee & Comanche Forums > XJ Cherokee Technical Forum > Gauges, odometer, radio, dome lights all inop

50% Off Sale at KrawlOff-Road.comJeep Wrangler Complete Gear Upgrade Kits with Installs andIntroducing MONSTALINERô UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed Line

Reply
Unread 04-03-2015, 11:34 AM   #1
Shane826
Registered User
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 8
Gauges, odometer, radio, dome lights all inop

I've been a visitor to these forums for a while, but this is my first post, here goes...

My brother's 2000 XJ has an electrical gremlin. The above mentioned items all quit working. The backlighting and idiot lights all work on the cluster, the gauges do not. We checked all the fuses with a test light; underhood are all good, but behind the passenger kick panel we have some issues. The fuses that control the problem areas have no power coming into them or a ground path going out. If I put power to the fuse with a Power Probe the systems still don't work...

Does anyone have access to the power supply & feed schematics for this fuse block? Any known connectors that have issues? I'm not sure where to go from here... I suspect the fuse block itself might be bad but my brother doesn't have 2 nickels to rub together so pitching parts at it isn't an option unless we have evidence to try it.

Thanks!
Shane

(PS I'm an ASE Master Mechanic so not afraid to get in there to check stuff out. I just don't have the schematic or other info to know where to start looking...

Shane826 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-03-2015, 12:07 PM   #2
CCKen
Web Wheeler
 
CCKen's Avatar
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 2,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane826 View Post
I've been a visitor to these forums for a while, but this is my first post, here goes...

My brother's 2000 XJ has an electrical gremlin. The above mentioned items all quit working. The backlighting and idiot lights all work on the cluster, the gauges do not. We checked all the fuses with a test light; underhood are all good, but behind the passenger kick panel we have some issues. The fuses that control the problem areas have no power coming into them or a ground path going out. If I put power to the fuse with a Power Probe the systems still don't work...

Does anyone have access to the power supply & feed schematics for this fuse block? Any known connectors that have issues? I'm not sure where to go from here... I suspect the fuse block itself might be bad but my brother doesn't have 2 nickels to rub together so pitching parts at it isn't an option unless we have evidence to try it.

Thanks!
Shane

(PS I'm an ASE Master Mechanic so not afraid to get in there to check stuff out. I just don't have the schematic or other info to know where to start looking...
Here's a pic of the PDC fuses. There's two fuses that feed the JB (marked JB).



Normally the IOD fuse in the PDC blows and takes out those circuits you mentioned.

Here's the JB (below):

F17 Radio
F6 Dome Lights
F9 Instrument Cluster

All powered when the key is turned to RUN

These circuits go through connector C4. There have been quite a few cases of corrosion in the JB, especially in connector C4.

You should remove the cover from the JB and unbolt/remove C4 and see if it's corroded.



Here's some pics of an ate up JB:





.
__________________
If we have data, letís look at data. If all we have are opinions, letís go with mine.
CCKen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-03-2015, 01:31 PM   #3
Shane826
Registered User
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 8
Thanks for the reply. Like I said all fuses are intact. I removed all connectors at the junction block, no corrosion. Removed the junction box and disassembled all the layers, all are clean. When reassembled where does power come into the junction block? Which terminals on C4 (assuming that's the one that bolts to the JB), control gauges, odometer, radio, lights? I had thought it could be the junction block too, but again I see no signs of meltdown. If I can confirm power in and a path to components out, I can still condemn the JB.
Shane826 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-03-2015, 01:58 PM   #4
CCKen
Web Wheeler
 
CCKen's Avatar
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 2,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane826 View Post
Thanks for the reply. Like I said all fuses are intact. I removed all connectors at the junction block, no corrosion. Removed the junction box and disassembled all the layers, all are clean. When reassembled where does power come into the junction block? Which terminals on C4 (assuming that's the one that bolts to the JB), control gauges, odometer, radio, lights? I had thought it could be the junction block too, but again I see no signs of meltdown. If I can confirm power in and a path to components out, I can still condemn the JB.
I don't think so but it depends upon troubleshooting techniques.

JB C4.

S2 - F6

S9 - F17

S13 - F9

Make sure the ignition switch is in the RUN position when looking for voltage at these pin cavities/fuses.

__________________
If we have data, letís look at data. If all we have are opinions, letís go with mine.
CCKen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-03-2015, 02:13 PM   #5
Shane826
Registered User
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 8
I should have power coming from the vehicle (disconnected from JB) or power from the Junction Block (connector plugged in and back probed)? Had to step away for a few minutes, son needs some attention...
Shane826 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-03-2015, 02:51 PM   #6
Shane826
Registered User
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 8
All 3 of those have ground but no power with the connector unplugged and the key set to RUN.
Shane826 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-03-2015, 03:24 PM   #7
Shane826
Registered User
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 8
I now have power on F9 & F17, ground path but no power on F6 after putting the junction block back together. All are still inop.
Shane826 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-03-2015, 03:44 PM   #8
Shane826
Registered User
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 8
A friend just came by with his Solus. We have no communication with the ECM, but can communicate with Trans & Airbag modules. No codes in either. Anyone else have any thoughts?
Shane826 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-03-2015, 05:51 PM   #9
CCKen
Web Wheeler
 
CCKen's Avatar
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 2,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane826 View Post
A friend just came by with his Solus. We have no communication with the ECM, but can communicate with Trans & Airbag modules. No codes in either. Anyone else have any thoughts?
It's hard for me to get a grasp on what you are doing (other previous posts), but that aside,

You don't have communication with the PCM probably because the instrument cluster is down. If the cluster goes down, so does the CCD Bus.

It's unusual that a tool can communicate with the TCM and ABCM and not the PCM. That tool must be a good one. The dealer uses a DRB III tool to do that.

Here's a schematic of the modules on the CCD Bus I put together. You can see that the cluster and the PCM have termination resistors, that in effect, run the CCD Bus. These resistors convert the 5 volt bias to around 2.5 volts. The cluster is actually the boss of the bus because of its bias module.

You can check the bus at the Data Link, referring to the pin out.



Using an Ohmmeter between pin cavities 3 and 11, if the PCM or cluster is out of the bus, you will see 120 Ohms. If both are on the bus you will see 60 Ohms.

As a side bar, if you can scape up $7.95, you can download a pdf Factory Service Manual for the 2000 XJ by going to Pacific Coast Manuals.com.

I still can't get it out of my thinking that the IOD fuse is okay. All of those troublesome circuits are powered from the IOD fuse, off the battery bus. However, when the alternator is on line, power comes from those maxi fuses in the PDC to the JB.
__________________
If we have data, letís look at data. If all we have are opinions, letís go with mine.
CCKen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-03-2015, 06:15 PM   #10
Shane826
Registered User
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 8
I use a Power Probe instead of a simple test light as it is module-safe (a simple incandescent test light can smoke a module). It shows power and ground... We called it a night on the Cherokee. Kids, lack of daylight, etc. I'll check the buss with a DVOM soon. And good tip about the manual, didn't know that. Is that an online manual, print at home, or what?
Shane826 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-04-2015, 06:15 AM   #11
CCKen
Web Wheeler
 
CCKen's Avatar
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 2,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane826 View Post
I use a Power Probe instead of a simple test light as it is module-safe (a simple incandescent test light can smoke a module). It shows power and ground... We called it a night on the Cherokee. Kids, lack of daylight, etc. I'll check the buss with a DVOM soon. And good tip about the manual, didn't know that. Is that an online manual, print at home, or what?
You actually download it into your computer for your own use. It's a pdf file.
__________________
If we have data, letís look at data. If all we have are opinions, letís go with mine.
CCKen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-06-2015, 08:18 PM   #12
Shane826
Registered User
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 8
When testing pins 3 & 11 for resistance DVOM fluctuates between 120 - 375 ohms. I tried two different multimeters. Just to 100% eliminate the IOD fuse, I replaced it. No change. Also I read elsewhere about a cluster self test by holding the odometer reset and then turning on the key. The lights all cycle but the gauges don't move. Guessing the cluster took a dump.
Shane826 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 04-07-2015, 06:07 AM   #13
CCKen
Web Wheeler
 
CCKen's Avatar
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 2,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane826 View Post
When testing pins 3 & 11 for resistance DVOM fluctuates between 120 - 375 ohms. I tried two different multimeters. Just to 100% eliminate the IOD fuse, I replaced it. No change. Also I read elsewhere about a cluster self test by holding the odometer reset and then turning on the key. The lights all cycle but the gauges don't move. Guessing the cluster took a dump.
You might try removing the instrument cluster and take readings at the two cluster connectors docks (C1 & C2) - see illustrations. This won't have anything to do with the radio and dome lights being inop, unless you don't get battery voltage at C1, pin cavity 9 (IOD Fuse).

Use a digital volt/ohmmeter, not a probe.

Remove the battery negative post connector when taking resistance reading because the CCD Bus does have a small keep alive voltage on it.

Cluster dock connector locations:



Cluster pin outs:



The first thing you may want to check is continuity to ground (G108) between C1, cav 6, to a bare spot on the dash structure, and C2, cav 9, to dash.

Next, check the CCD Bus resistance again by going between C2, cav 1 to cav 2. You should see 120 Ohms. If it fluctuates like at the DLC you have a bad wiring issue.

Voltage checks. Battery connected. Ignition OFF. Read from C1, cav 9 to cav 6 (IOD). You should see battery voltage.

Turn ignition switch to RUN (don't start engine). Read from C1, cav 8, to cav 6 (JB fuse F9). You should see battery voltage.

G108 is ground for the radio and the instrument cluster, and the headlight switch (dome light dimmer function).
__________________
If we have data, letís look at data. If all we have are opinions, letís go with mine.
CCKen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools






Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.