Doorless XJ Q's - Page 2

cbremer · 01-26-2004, 07:44 PM

i have my front doors set up to be removeable- I removed the rollpins in the hinges and use hitch-pins to keep the doors on (the kind with the little spring-loaded ball near the end) and have Molex connectors for the power accessory wires (locks & windows) i relocated the door-mounted speakers to some of those q-forms kickpanel speaker pods, so I can enjoy some tunes even with the doors off.

I can have my doors off nearly as quick as my buddies with TJs can get their doors off. getting them back on is a little trickier, but can be done by yourself- much easier with another set of hands though

heathen3226 · 01-26-2004, 07:47 PM

does anyone know the legality of driving with a doorless XJ, or an XJ with tube doors? i'd like to be able to drive mine on and off road w/o doors if at all possible.
-Heath

1337j33px0r · 01-26-2004, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heathen3226

does anyone know the legality of driving with a doorless XJ, or an XJ with tube doors? i'd like to be able to drive mine on and off road w/o doors if at all possible.
-Heath

this varies by state

jfw432 · 01-26-2004, 10:08 PM

Well I've done a bunch of researching on this topic and read tons of threads on it on many forums. Basically it boiled down to: no it doesn't affect structural rigidity and it's illegal to remove them if you have side support beams. I believe they added those in 94+ cherokee's but not sure. I know my 91 has the exterior metal and the interior metal and definately nothing that would really help in a side impact. Basically it's illegal to remove any doors if you have those side impacts beams. I assume this follows the same law as airbags. You don't need them unless the car comes stock with them.

I also emailed the guy who wrote that article about how his removable doors turned out and if he liked them. He said they sagged a little at first but he just loosened all the bolts on the hinges and adjusted them accordingly to compensate for the sag so it's like normal now. In case others didn't know he also said that the mass of wires has a connector at the base of the door so you can just unclip and feed it through the door. Says he loves them now and couldn't imagine going back to stock.

jon campbell · 01-27-2004, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctavel

Yeah I like that rig (rusty's) I was under the impression that the hatch was a structural part though? Jon--how are you going to take them off?

I dont believe so but I could be wrong. I plan to put in a cage that would compensate for that anyway. Does anyone know if it is a structural part?

ctavel · 01-27-2004, 05:15 AM

cbremmer-- can you snap some pics of your modified hinges? thanks

jfw432 · 01-27-2004, 12:26 PM

Well I've heard most people say that removing the hatch would compromise structural integrity. However, from an engineering stand point, I can't possibly see how a moving door with rubber seals could possibly be load bearing.

Also since XJ's are unibody's then I would think the frame would have to bend before the body and if I can see the body is moving a considerable amount during normal driving then I'll never wheel the XJ again. The only way I could see the hatch helping is during a roll over in which case it will be load bearing.

If you take the hatch off then you'll definately hear more rattling because you're more exposed to the sounds the Jeep makes anyway. You raise it up and leave it there and drive and you'll definately feel some shimmy and bouncing but I'm pretty sure that's only because you've got a huge moment arm attached to 2 little hinges that's just banging around.

ctavel · 01-27-2004, 01:16 PM

Yeah ^^^^^ I was under the same impression that the hatch was load bearing, but I never wanted to take that off, just the doors. Good to know though

cbremer · 01-27-2004, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctavel

cbremmer-- can you snap some pics of your modified hinges? thanks

by all means

these are the pass side front.

lower hinge close-up

Molex (electrical) connector

the whole arrangement:

"Cotterless Hitch Pins" (i got these at home depot, about $1.50 a piece IIRC):

ctavel · 01-27-2004, 07:26 PM

Hey thanks a lot. How did you get the original pins out of the hinges? Thanks again

One more thing--can you make a quick release thing for speaker wire like you can electrical wires? I'm no audio whiz but why wouldn't it work

?

cbremer · 01-27-2004, 10:59 PM

first off, I removed (unbolted) the doors for more room to work. for one of the pins I was lucky enough to be able to tap it out with a hammer & punch. for the other 3, I had to cut the pins with a cutoff wheel between each side of the hinge, then was able to use a punch to remove the pieces of the pins from the hinges. i drilled the holes where the pins were to 17/64" so the new pins aren't impossible to remove

. the doors do have a little up & down movement when open, but are solid (and waterproof) when closed. you'll have to adjust the hinges to compensate for the slightly larger hole in the hinges. i removed the upper shims (between the door and the hinge) and that did the trick in my case.

the Molex connectors are available in many different pin configurations. I used 12-pin connectors (3 rows x 4 pins per row). i have power accessories, so the driver's door had the most wires. I relocated the speakers to the kick-panel pods, so I didn't bother to include the speaker wires in the connectors, but there's no reason you couldn't. each wire has to be cut, then a male and a female terminal is crimped on, then the terminals are snapped into the plastic connector. must make sure the wires match up, or you'll let the smoke out!

the plastic connector itself is keyed so it can only be connected one way.

ctavel · 01-28-2004, 05:29 AM

Cool, Ilike this Idea because I can quickly put them back on and not worry about rebolting the door to the hinge. Thanks for all the input yall.

jon campbell · 01-28-2004, 09:13 AM

If you disconnect the wires for the speaker...other than not having that speaker will there be any other complications?

forgiven · 02-05-2004, 11:39 AM

I punched the hinge pin out on my "89. Re-aligning hinges is a major PITA. I also fabbed tube doors. As soon as it warms up, (I hate the cold) I'll put the tube doors back on. I've also considered removing the rear hatch,and have heard that it is structural. I plan on chopping the top this year so I may be getting rid of the tube doors in favor of DP'ing the sides over the doors. I will make half doors though so I don't have to climb over the full height of the door.

ctavel · 02-05-2004, 01:11 PM

did you try and realign the doors with the factory pin or did you use something else? Did you just use a BFH to get the pins out?

01-26-2004, 10:08 PM	#19
jfw432 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Warner Robins, GA Posts: 825 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps iTrader Rating	Well I've done a bunch of researching on this topic and read tons of threads on it on many forums. Basically it boiled down to: no it doesn't affect structural rigidity and it's illegal to remove them if you have side support beams. I believe they added those in 94+ cherokee's but not sure. I know my 91 has the exterior metal and the interior metal and definately nothing that would really help in a side impact. Basically it's illegal to remove any doors if you have those side impacts beams. I assume this follows the same law as airbags. You don't need them unless the car comes stock with them. I also emailed the guy who wrote that article about how his removable doors turned out and if he liked them. He said they sagged a little at first but he just loosened all the bolts on the hinges and adjusted them accordingly to compensate for the sag so it's like normal now. In case others didn't know he also said that the mass of wires has a connector at the base of the door so you can just unclip and feed it through the door. Says he loves them now and couldn't imagine going back to stock. __________________ 91 Cherokee with selectrac, 2" Rusty's AAL BB, 31x10.5 Liberator AT's

01-27-2004, 12:26 PM	#22
jfw432 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Warner Robins, GA Posts: 825 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps iTrader Rating	Well I've heard most people say that removing the hatch would compromise structural integrity. However, from an engineering stand point, I can't possibly see how a moving door with rubber seals could possibly be load bearing. Also since XJ's are unibody's then I would think the frame would have to bend before the body and if I can see the body is moving a considerable amount during normal driving then I'll never wheel the XJ again. The only way I could see the hatch helping is during a roll over in which case it will be load bearing. If you take the hatch off then you'll definately hear more rattling because you're more exposed to the sounds the Jeep makes anyway. You raise it up and leave it there and drive and you'll definately feel some shimmy and bouncing but I'm pretty sure that's only because you've got a huge moment arm attached to 2 little hinges that's just banging around. __________________ 91 Cherokee with selectrac, 2" Rusty's AAL BB, 31x10.5 Liberator AT's

01-27-2004, 07:26 PM	#25
ctavel Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ___ Posts: 1,657 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps iTrader Rating	Hey thanks a lot. How did you get the original pins out of the hinges? Thanks again One more thing--can you make a quick release thing for speaker wire like you can electrical wires? I'm no audio whiz but why wouldn't it work ? Last edited by ctavel; 01-27-2004 at 07:34 PM.

01-28-2004, 09:13 AM	#28
jon campbell Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 402 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps iTrader Rating	If you disconnect the wires for the speaker...other than not having that speaker will there be any other complications? __________________ [SIZE=1]94 XJ 4.0 HO/inline 6 5sp Rusty's 6.5" lift w/ 2" spacers, Rustys steering conversion, RE Control arm drop brackets, RE Hack n Tap SYE, Tom Woods Driveshaft, 33" Tires, 4.56 gears, TJ fender flares, BPI Front winch bumper, CRS rear bumper, K&N air filter, Flowmaster exhaust, M.O.R.E "bomb proof" motor mounts, Surco roof rack [/SIZE] [B]MY PICS[/B] www.northeastcrawlers.com/rides/jon.htm [B]MEMBERS OF...[/B] NORTHEASTCRAWLERS.COM BLWA.ORG (BLACKLISTWHEELERSASSOC.)

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01-26-2004, 07:47 PM	#17
heathen3226 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 207 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps iTrader Rating	does anyone know the legality of driving with a doorless XJ, or an XJ with tube doors? i'd like to be able to drive mine on and off road w/o doors if at all possible. -Heath

01-27-2004, 05:15 AM	#21
ctavel Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ___ Posts: 1,657 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps iTrader Rating	cbremmer-- can you snap some pics of your modified hinges? thanks

01-27-2004, 01:16 PM	#23
ctavel Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ___ Posts: 1,657 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps iTrader Rating	Yeah ^^^^^ I was under the same impression that the hatch was load bearing, but I never wanted to take that off, just the doors. Good to know though

01-27-2004, 10:59 PM	#26
cbremer Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 172 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps iTrader Rating	first off, I removed (unbolted) the doors for more room to work. for one of the pins I was lucky enough to be able to tap it out with a hammer & punch. for the other 3, I had to cut the pins with a cutoff wheel between each side of the hinge, then was able to use a punch to remove the pieces of the pins from the hinges. i drilled the holes where the pins were to 17/64" so the new pins aren't impossible to remove . the doors do have a little up & down movement when open, but are solid (and waterproof) when closed. you'll have to adjust the hinges to compensate for the slightly larger hole in the hinges. i removed the upper shims (between the door and the hinge) and that did the trick in my case. the Molex connectors are available in many different pin configurations. I used 12-pin connectors (3 rows x 4 pins per row). i have power accessories, so the driver's door had the most wires. I relocated the speakers to the kick-panel pods, so I didn't bother to include the speaker wires in the connectors, but there's no reason you couldn't. each wire has to be cut, then a male and a female terminal is crimped on, then the terminals are snapped into the plastic connector. must make sure the wires match up, or you'll let the smoke out! the plastic connector itself is keyed so it can only be connected one way.

01-28-2004, 05:29 AM	#27
ctavel Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ___ Posts: 1,657 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps iTrader Rating	Cool, Ilike this Idea because I can quickly put them back on and not worry about rebolting the door to the hinge. Thanks for all the input yall.

02-05-2004, 11:39 AM	#29
forgiven Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: So. Col. Posts: 48 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps iTrader Rating	I punched the hinge pin out on my "89. Re-aligning hinges is a major PITA. I also fabbed tube doors. As soon as it warms up, (I hate the cold) I'll put the tube doors back on. I've also considered removing the rear hatch,and have heard that it is structural. I plan on chopping the top this year so I may be getting rid of the tube doors in favor of DP'ing the sides over the doors. I will make half doors though so I don't have to climb over the full height of the door.

02-05-2004, 01:11 PM	#30
ctavel Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ___ Posts: 1,657 Profile Gallery Classifieds My Jeeps iTrader Rating	did you try and realign the doors with the factory pin or did you use something else? Did you just use a BFH to get the pins out?