Diesel anyone?? - JeepForum.com

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post #1 of 26 Old 03-23-2006, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
buddy2003
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Diesel anyone??

So here's the thing - I have a '96 4.0L, 5spd with 180k miles on it (50k mine) which I've owned for 3 years. It has yet to let me down and after 3 years of ownership I have got the bugs ironed out (done the deathwobble thing, replaced virtually everything that has worn out apart from the transmission, engine, AC and steering pump)......each year my maintenance costs are actually going down!

I like driving it, love the 4wd (handy in Canada), it's rugged, don't care if the dogs mess it up......apart from one thing - I HATE the gas mileage and at present am looking for a diesel car to replace it with (the irony that Chrysler did an export only diesel version is not lost on me).....and no, I don't care for the liberty, even with a diesel engine.

Has anyone heard of anybody doing a diesel engine conversion on a cherokee (apart from the isuzu turbo diesel conversion on the web)?

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post #2 of 26 Old 03-23-2006, 10:18 PM
anony91xj
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Diesel in trucks/SUV's won't result in gas mileage that's any better, it'll be years, if at all, before the swap pays for itself in fuel savings. I'd say deal with the mileage you get or just trade it in for a Honda or some ****...

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post #3 of 26 Old 03-23-2006, 10:26 PM
coppertop71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy2003
I HATE the gas mileage and at present am looking for a diesel car to replace it with (the irony that Chrysler did an export only diesel version is not lost on me).....and no, I don't care for the liberty, even with a diesel engine.
Update your signature with any mods and tire size. If your running a stock XJ you should be getting 15 city or higher and 18-20 highway or higher. I once got 23 mpg on the highway. Are you running bigger tires? Update your post and maybe we can help. As far as a diesel it only pays for trucks that are heavy weight haulers where a gas engine performs poor or places where diesel is much cheaper than gas.



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post #4 of 26 Old 03-23-2006, 10:41 PM
Forcus
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I love diesels but diesel swaps aren't quite as economical as they used to be (diesel is more expensive than premium gas here).

That being said the most cost effective swap that I could find was a Mercedes diesel in 2.5-3.0L sizes from the early 80's, or Isuzu swaps from NPR and similar midsize trucks.... the problem is you are on your own for transmission / transfer case unless you can figure out how to mount the Mercedes diesel to the AW4.. It's custom. The only other option I can think of is to import the complete front clip from an overseas market XJ that had a diesel engine stock. That would probably be your best bet but would be at least $3-4k with or without shipping.
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post #5 of 26 Old 03-23-2006, 10:55 PM
JIMBOJAMES
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anony91xj
Diesel in trucks/SUV's won't result in gas mileage that's any better, it'll be years, if at all, before the swap pays for itself in fuel savings. I'd say deal with the mileage you get or just trade it in for a Honda or some ****...

I guess you never owned a diesel truck huh?? My dad's diesel excursion gets 16.5MPG around town and 18 highway. MY buddy's F-350 with a chip in it gets 23MPG towing a trailer with 4 quads on it. Both trucks destroy my XJ in gas mileage.

96 Cheorkee Sport - 6.5" Lift, with 33X12.50 BFG MT's, big bumpers
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post #6 of 26 Old 03-23-2006, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anony91xj
Diesel in trucks/SUV's won't result in gas mileage that's any better
What are you basing this statement on?
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post #7 of 26 Old 03-24-2006, 12:30 AM
tdbutler
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i had a tj i had setup for a diesel swap with a toyota 4.2L turbo diesel out of Spectre Off-Road (sold for a foreign land cruiser engine, not sold to u.s. department). You will spend more money on the swap than you will on gas in the next 5 years probably. It requires new driveline, trans, poss. transfer (all depending on the truck the diesel is coming from, but this goes for any engine swap). then when you think your ready, you remember you need new tanks, new gas lines, new acceptors, and everything else you could imagine in that little engine compartment. it was going to cost me around the 12,000 $$ range. needless to say i kept with my engine for a few months before buying a new jeep.

and also, you have to factor in that the only better gas mileage you'll get is if you use a TURBO with the engine (even then, it's a maybe). and i don;t knwo if you kneo much about turbo's, but i have worked on vw and audi turbos on simple 4 cyl. cars and they are far more complicated than anything a jeep owner has wanted or ever will want to deal with in my opinion. forced air is a no if you want real balls to an engine in my opinion.

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post #8 of 26 Old 03-24-2006, 12:33 AM
kyro
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I have the Diesel XJ and it might cost more to fill the tank then the Petrol XJ s but i get twice as far before filling again


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post #9 of 26 Old 03-24-2006, 12:50 AM
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As far as Diesels not getting better milage, I KNOW that's BS. Prior to this whole 'SUV' thing I owned two suburbans, at the same time, 2 years apart in model year. The 6.2 Diesel got 28-30 mpg regardless of city, highway, towing whatever. The 350 powered suburban got half that on the highway. If you are in stop and go traffic, it was terrible. That's apples to apples, and the diesel was double the milage. Wanna talk about longevity? The 350 has been rebuilt twice at 170,000 miles, the diesel is purring along at ~250,000 miles. If the parts for the swap were cheap and simple, like a factory option, you might be able to make a diesel swap economically viable. As far as custom work goes, probablly not worth it.

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post #10 of 26 Old 03-24-2006, 01:42 AM
Timo_90xj
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I'd say if you don't care loosing the magnificent sound on that 4.0 I6 and can get the diesel at a reasonable price, go for it. Way better mileage, quite propably going to get a good long- lasting engine (diesels usually are way stronger than petrol engines) and you definitely have to factor in the fact that diesel engine is a lot better option when going wheeling.

I qouldn't be afraid of the turbo, as long as it's in good condition. A turbocharged inline- engine is really not that complicated when compared to free aspiration. Yes, you've better use an intercooler, the exhaust manifold is different, you've got the turbo itself, plus a few more wires and air- supply pipes compared to free aspiring, but that don't make it complicated. With correct turbo you can get huge amounts of low- end torque, decent horsepower and very good mileage from a diesel. Add to that the good things of a diesel engine when wheeling (no need for spark plugs -> no complicated electronics -> you won't be able to kill your engine without really trying hard).

I know diesels aren't exactly common in the states, but hey guys look at basically all of the modern- day diesel engines designed for passenger cars and SUVs for the European markets.. I'd buy almost any Merc, BMW, VW, etc.. with a diesel rather than gas engine.. It's pretty much common specs on a 2.5 liter (4- or 6 cyl) diesel engine to give as much as 500Nm torque and around 200hp - and very good mileage. Ok, the Jeep diesel engine was not that much of a high- end diesel, but based on what I've been testing them, they definitely are good engines for 4- wheel use. They sure don't have the grunt the 4.0 I6 has, but the diesel is a nice engine for the xj.

But as said, the biggest problem is that you propably don't have that many direct- fit diesel engines for the xj in the states, so it'll definitely be expensive to get one. So from an economical point of view, I'd say it's not a good idea. And as said, you do have to change a whole lot of parts under the hood, even if do find yourself a "real" xj- diesel engine.


edit: Yes, I would have bought myself a diesel, if:
* There would have been a good one available (didn't find a suitable one for my purposes)
* I actually wanted the I6, even though at the gas prices here it's not really a good idea. And yes, it's not as good for wheeling, but I just love the sound and feeling of the I6, so in a way it was my only real choise.. But someday I'll quite definitely will get one with a diesel.

1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 LX daily driver, 1.75" BB, 32" KM2s, HPD30 Eaton e-locker/D44a stock LSD, 4.56 gears, custom- fabbed tube bumpers and tube fenders,...


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post #11 of 26 Old 03-24-2006, 01:49 AM
tvisXJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMBOJAMES
I guess you never owned a diesel truck huh?? My dad's diesel excursion gets 16.5MPG around town and 18 highway. MY buddy's F-350 with a chip in it gets 23MPG towing a trailer with 4 quads on it. Both trucks destroy my XJ in gas mileage.
Diesel Excursion

After having the opportunity to drive several different Turbo Diesel trucks, new and old... I love 'em! I'd love to have a diesel tow rig

Recently purchased bone stock silverstone '01 XJ 4.0 4x4. Overland project to come.....
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post #12 of 26 Old 03-24-2006, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvisXJ
Diesel Excursion
I Agree, my parents just got rid of our 99 expedition about 4 or 5 months ago, and got an excursion with a 6.0L Turbo Diesel, now i am trying to talk them into letting me drive it to school , hasent worked yet.

as for the diesel conversion, i would do it, cuz me my bro, and a friend just bought a biodiesel machine, so we figure that we can make it for less than a dollar a gallon.

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post #13 of 26 Old 03-24-2006, 06:40 AM
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I say it's an awesome idea. I've been thinking about it for a while too. Diesel is the way of the future, you can run the damn things on pure vegetable oil! I've always thought the best way to do it would be to find and buy a totalled Liberty CRD, and just start swapping everything over from that. Then you can probably part out the rest, and make a bit of your money back.

Recently, i've also had the thought of putting a Cummins ISB in there. It looks to me to be just about as long as the 4.0, but it is quite a bit taller, or so it looks. I'd be cool if you can cram one of those in there.

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post #14 of 26 Old 03-24-2006, 07:38 AM
anony91xj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMBOJAMES
I guess you never owned a diesel truck huh?? My dad's diesel excursion gets 16.5MPG around town and 18 highway. MY buddy's F-350 with a chip in it gets 23MPG towing a trailer with 4 quads on it. Both trucks destroy my XJ in gas mileage.
My point was to tell him to do the math. Figure out the potential gain in MPG, the cost of doing the swap, and the cost of a gallon of 87 octane vs a gallon of diesel at today's prices. I could be wrong, but it'd probably take FOREVER, I mean years and at least >100,000 miles before he actually saved any money in the long run from doing the conversion. It's not worth the hassle IMO.

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post #15 of 26 Old 03-24-2006, 09:07 AM
Forcus
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BTW most of the diesel guys (and there are lots of websites dedicated to conversions, etc) love diesels even if the pennies would mean it makes more sense to rebuild the old gas engines. I for one am more interested in driving past gas pumps than having to fill up every couple hundred miles (my 01 Crown Victoria, all town, only gets 13 mpg). And with the possibilities opening up for biodiesel, it will be a very interesting future.

As far as the turbo, a turbodiesel is the only way to fly.... if you've ever driven a non-turbo diesel you'll know what I mean, slowwwww. I've had an 83 6.9 (International, non turbo, mechanically injected) F250 and a 95 Powerstroke E350 (International, turbo, hydraulic/electronic injected) and the difference is night and day. I could smoke ricers on the highway in the PS, good fun. If you go with an earlier mechanically injected diesel, the turbo setup is not very complicated at all.

Regarding the Cummins, you are probably thinking of the 3.9B TA which is a 4 cylinder (2/3 of the legendary 5.9 in the Cummins Dodges). There have already been swaps in to TJ's and other Jeeps... the information is out there. Only bad part is 3.9B's are highly sought after and usually run 3-5k for a good setup. And most are non-turbo. Also they are a little on the heavy side, I'd maybe be a little reluctant on running one in a unibody XJ but it may be unwarranted.
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