[RockRodHooligan]

Some of you may remember last summer when I bought that HP 44 from a '79 Bronco? Well I took the housing to the scrap yard Wednesday to make room for this:

HP44 from a "mid-'70s" Ford F150, still not sure of the exact year yet, but I'm hoping it's one of the years with the 1/2" wall tube, but since the only years with the weld on radius wedges that they did that was '77, I'm hoping for the best. It ships this week.

I kept the outers from the Bronco(knuckles, brakes, hubs, spindles, shafts), and will be reusing them for the mean time. No plans for high steer at the moment, but will be going OTK with Ballistic Fab's Chevy one ton steering kit.

I think I'm going to so something a little different than I've seen so far, StarboardM did a great write up on narrowing to Waggy width, and Cruzin Illusion also did a great one on narrowing to use custom inner shafts. Both kept close to stock XJ axle widths. The reason Cruzin decided to use custom shafts was because a waggy front axle shifts the pumpkin to the drivers side about 0.66" compared to the XJ/TJ stock front axles, and can cause issues with the drivers side coil mount. I'm still looking for something a little different than that. The goal is to try and keep it as "off the shelf", and easy as possible, but gain a little width since I plan on running 35"s on this axle, and will need a little more lift to fit them.

So, I'm going to narrow it to except TJ Rubicon Dana 44 inner shafts. I'm still trying to find an exact measurement of the stock WMS-WMS of the F150, but the most believable I've found is 67". If this is true, then by using TJ inner shafts, I would end up with about 62.75" WMS to WMS, about 2.25" wider than stock. I really don't plan on changing anything on the rear axle to compensate for the difference to start with, I would like the help a wider front will do to help turning radius. If the looks really bother me(if it's really that noticeable), I can always throw spacers in the rear.

I like TNTs stuff, but they can be a little pricey, and I think I can get a little more for my money doing it a little different. For starters, the truss itself. I'm really impressed with the Under Cover Fab truss system I have for my rear 44, so I'm going to have Matt pop me one out for the front axle, it will probably look close to this:

I'm working on the details with him now. I'm going though Ballistic for most of my brackets, in one easy step:

High clearance control arm mounts, UBE style shock mounts, and coil mounts centered over the axle should give me a little stretch to the front, about 2" iirc. For the UCA mounts, sway bar brackets, OTK track bar mount, and matching track bar, I will be using a local fabricator. Since I also plan on going with a custom long arm set up at the same time, using all Ballistic joints, there are a few things I still have to work out, mostly having to do with the arms themselves, and that will probably determine how I do my UCA mounts. If I end up doing stock style UCAs with the "fork" at the axle end, I'm going to copy something that Currie and Clayton are doing for the UCA brackets, but using a weld in 2.63" Ballistic Joint instead, as opposed to the 2" JJ that Currie and Clayton both use:

Another thing is, I'm not sure if I'm going to do a 3 link style radius arm(IE no passenger side UCA), or go ahead and make it a traditional radius arm, but with a removable passenger side UCA for the trail. It would definitely be cheaper to not do a passenger side upper.

[RockRodHooligan]

I have already started restoring the Bronco outer parts. The dust shields are in horrible condition, and will be thrown away as soon as I can get the spindle and brake bracket apart, 10 years sitting outside beside a shop can make things hard to get apart.

I got one of them apart and started sand blasting

I'm not positive they are in good enough shape, but I'm going to try and reuse the spindles if I can.

The steering knuckles have already been blasted and painted

I'm not sure I'm going to keep them black, I painted them before I planed on using them. I had blasted them and painted them with the intention of re-selling them to try and make back some of my money.

I don't think I'm going to try and keep the rotors, but I'm definitely swapping over the hubs

[EricsXJ]

That sounds like a pretty good plan.

If you want to know what that axle width could look like it is almost identical to what I have, since my hub kit widened the track some in the front. You know I've been considering some changes so I recently measured my front and it came out to around 62.5" wms-wms. I did exactly what you might do with the spacers in the rear. I used 1.0" spacers and that brought the wms-wms measurement in the rear also to 62.5". My wheels have 4.0" BS so it would be the same with stock axle width and 3.0" BS. I love it. If you want pictures of this setup you should know where to find them. If not, ask.

Those ballistic brackets are nice. The only question I have is the position of the LCA mounts and the coil. The stock LCA mounts are not positioned directly behind the coil but are slightly in-board if my memory serves correctly. Those new brackets shouldn't be a problem if you are making your own arms, but some arms like TNT y-link arms are bent a certain way to fit the stock brackets. They might still work but not fit as well as they could.

So... will you be making your own arms?

[Starboard M]

Im not sure how you are getting over 62'' wms to wms, since mine turned out to be 61.5'' wide using the waggy stuff.



What did you mean about the 1/2'' tubes and welded wedges? Mine was out of a 72-75 F100 and afaik all 72-78 F100s and Broncos all used 1/2'' tubes with the welded wedges.

[RockRodHooligan]

Originally Posted by EricsXJ

That sounds like a pretty good plan.

If you want to know what that axle width could look like it is almost identical to what I have, since my hub kit widened the track some in the front. You know I've been considering some changes so I recently measured my front and it came out to around 62.50" wms-wms. I did exactly what you might do with the spacers in the rear. I used 1.0" spacers and that brought the wms-wms measurement in the rear also to 62.50". My wheels have 4.0" BS so it would be the same with stock axle width and 3.0" BS. I love it. If you want pictures of this setup you should know where to find them. If not, ask.

Where did you end up getting your wheel spacers from? I haven't looked too hard, but Spidertrax only has 1 1/4" spacers listed.

Those ballistic brackets are nice. The only question I have is the position of the LCA mounts and the coil. The stock LCA mounts are not positioned directly behind the coil but are slightly in-board if my memory serves correctly. Those new brackets shouldn't be a problem if you are making your own arms, but some arms like TNT y-link arms are bent a certain way to fit the stock brackets. They might still work but not fit as well as they could.

So... will you be making your own arms?

I was wandering about that myself, but after looking at their XJ/TJ Jeep combo bracket upgrade kit it looks like they did the same thing on those, and describe them as "All of the critical locations are left stock so that original parts or aftermarket parts from other companies will fit without ill effects on ride height or suspension geometry." Maybe it's not a big deal?

Yes, more than likely. I took a look at the Clayton long arms and about choked on the cost. I've figured up the cost and I can get all the material to build my own for about $530 shipped. Thats for:
6 Forged Chromoly 2.63" Ballistic Joints, with 5/8" though bolts, 1.25''- 12 tpi, and billet Nylatron Races
6 lock nuts
2- 4' sticks of 1.25" ID - 1.75" OD .250" wall DOM for the lowers
And a 2' stick of 1.25" ID - 1.50" OD .120" wall DOM for the upper

All I would need then is to get a 1.25"-12 tap and thread the arms and weld a bracket where the UCA would attach to the LCA.

[RockRodHooligan]

Originally Posted by Starboard M

Im not sure how you are getting over 62'' wms to wms, since mine turned out to be 61.5'' wide using the waggy stuff.

Gotten from Poly Performance: Superior axle shaft lengths, Dana 44 inner shafts.
SAG-PA6104 Ford F-150 68-79 30 Short Left 18.91"
SAG-PA6116 Jeep TJ Rubicon 03-UP 30 Short Left 16.625"
2.285" cut off the drivers side

SAG-PA6082 Ford F-150 68-79 30 Long Right 33.91"
SAG-PA6094 Jeep TJ Rubicon 03-UP 30 Long Right 31.88"
2.03" cut off the passenger side

If the F150 is indeed 67" WMS to WMS dead nuts, that would be narrowed by 4.315", that should put me at 62.685" WMS to WMS. But like I said, I can't find a solid number for WMS other than Cruzin Illusion's write up. I've seen everything from 65" to 67", and since the 44 knuckle is so much bigger than the Dana 30, it sounded about right.

What did you mean about the 1/2'' tubes and welded wedges? Mine was out of a 72-75 F100 and afaik all 72-78 F100s and Broncos all used 1/2'' tubes with the welded wedges.

I can't find the link, but I found it while trying to find a WMS for the F150, and it said that 77 some of the axle tubes were 3/8" wall, but yes the earlier were 1/2".

[Starboard M]

Originally Posted by hotrod_hooligan

Gotten from Poly Performance: Superior axle shaft lengths, Dana 44 inner shafts.
SAG-PA6104 Ford F-150 68-79 30 Short Left 18.91"
SAG-PA6116 Jeep TJ Rubicon 03-UP 30 Short Left 16.625"
2.285" cut off the drivers side

SAG-PA6082 Ford F-150 68-79 30 Long Right 33.91"
SAG-PA6094 Jeep TJ Rubicon 03-UP 30 Long Right 31.88"
2.03" cut off the passenger side

If the F150 is indeed 67" WMS to WMS dead nuts, that would be narrowed by 4.315", that should put me at 62.685" WMS to WMS. But like I said, I can't find a solid number for WMS other than Cruzin Illusion's write up. I've seen everything from 65" to 67", and since the 44 knuckle is so much bigger than the Dana 30, it sounded about right.



I can't find the link, but I found it while trying to find a WMS for the F150, and it said that 77 some of the axle tubes were 3/8" wall, but yes the earlier were 1/2".

I didnt realize the Rubi short side shaft was longer than the waggy stuff. Thats where the difference is coming from.

Id be curious to know where you found the wall thickness info. Everything I have ever seen has them pegged at 1/2'' wall, and Ive assumed that to be true, but if you have other information, let us know.

[RockRodHooligan]

Originally Posted by Starboard M

I didnt realize the Rubi short side shaft was longer than the waggy stuff. Thats where the difference is coming from.

Id be curious to know where you found the wall thickness info. Everything I have ever seen has them pegged at 1/2'' wall, and Ive assumed that to be true, but if you have other information, let us know.

Finally found it:


The Driver Side Differential Dana 44

[sean883]

Originally Posted by hotrod_hooligan

I was wandering about that myself, but after looking at their XJ/TJ Jeep combo bracket upgrade kit it looks like they did the same thing on those, and describe them as "All of the critical locations are left stock so that original parts or aftermarket parts from other companies will fit without ill effects on ride height or suspension geometry." Maybe it's not a big deal?

The XJ specific brackets are not 1 piece. The LCA tabs weld on seperate from the coil/shock mount. As far as the other 3in1 brackets, i am using them and i doubt you could get any XJ bolt on suspension to work with them. But if your building your own, then they are pretty nifty.

[EricsXJ]

Originally Posted by hotrod_hooligan

Where did you end up getting your wheel spacers from? I haven't looked too hard, but Spidertrax only has 1 1/4" spacers listed.

I got mine from a company called Weird Harold's but clicking on the link it appears they are no longer around:

http://www.whcoolparts.com/

I don't know why other companies don't make 1" spacers. These are the same as Spidertrax just 1/4" shorter. They've been flawless since I've had them.

[Timo_90xj]

Subscribed!

I will be following this thread with high interest, since I will be upgrading my front axle sometime in the future. I'm looking for a HPD44 donor, but they are extremely hard to find here in Finland.

My idea is the same as you, Starboard and Cruzin Illusion have had; slightly wider than stock front, and I'd prefer off-the shelf parts.

[Timo_90xj]

Originally Posted by hotrod_hooligan

Yes, more than likely. I took a look at the Clayton long arms and about choked on the cost. I've figured up the cost and I can get all the material to build my own for about $530 shipped. Thats for:
6 Forged Chromoly 2.63" Ballistic Joints, with 5/8" though bolts, 1.25''- 12 tpi, and billet Nylatron Races
6 lock nuts
2- 4' sticks of 1.25" ID - 1.75" OD .250" wall DOM for the lowers
And a 2' stick of 1.25" ID - 1.50" OD .120" wall DOM for the upper

All I would need then is to get a 1.25"-12 tap and thread the arms and weld a bracket where the UCA would attach to the LCA.

IMO you shouldn't try making the threads, unless you really have the tools and skills to fab 'em. That big threads aren't easy to make. Just take the tubes to a machine shop and they make the threads quite cheaply.

I'll be fabbing my own rear CAs for the 4-link rear using Ballistic fab parts. I asked T&T/Treks how much for their rear arms - they're almost a grand!

[RockRodHooligan]

Originally Posted by EricsXJ

I got mine from a company called Weird Harold's but clicking on the link it appears they are no longer around:

http://www.whcoolparts.com/

I don't know why other companies don't make 1" spacers. These are the same as Spidertrax just 1/4" shorter. They've been flawless since I've had them.

There is a guy over on NAXJA that has done the same thing already, and said according to his notes, he ended up with 62.9" WMS-WMS, but the axle shaft lengths he has for the Rubicon inners are a little different from the ones I have. I'll give Superior a call to get their exact measurements when the time comes. Maybe I'll have to play around with a few inner shaft combinations(Waggy/J10/J20/Scout/Bronco) to get a width I'm completely happy with.

Originally Posted by Timo_90xj

IMO you shouldn't try making the threads, unless you really have the tools and skills to fab 'em. That big threads aren't easy to make. Just take the tubes to a machine shop and they make the threads quite cheaply.

I'll be fabbing my own rear CAs for the 4-link rear using Ballistic fab parts. I asked T&T/Treks how much for their rear arms - they're almost a grand!

I've taken several different machining classes, and am pretty comfortable tapping everything, but if I had full access to a decent machine shop of my own, I'd just cut the threads on a lathe. Though I've been thinking, with as much as it would cost to buy a quality 1.25"-12 tap, It might just be cheaper to have a machine shop do it. Especially since I'm still looking into welded bungs for the lowers, so I can use a little bigger DOM for the arms.

I hear you about the cost of buying pre-made arms, I'm still not totally convinced on TNT rear arm design anyway. They only use a flex joint at one end, and a rubber/poly at the other, and the rubber/poly end is at an odd angle, that looks like it would cause binding when the suspension is flexing. I've decided that if/when I do a rear 4 link, I will buy the rest of the modular belly pan and rear cross member from TNT, then make my own links and mounts, and probably a UCF rear truss(if I'm not still using the rear axle I'm getting ready to swap in).

[RockRodHooligan]

Well, I'm pretty sure I've got the front arms all sorted out, for what size joints, tube, type of joint, design of the arms, etc.

For the lowers I'll be using right hand threaded, forged 2.63" Ballistic joints, 5'8" though bolts, with billet Nylatron races, at both ends, with 2" ODx .250" wall DOM, and tube adaptors/lock nuts.
I'm doing forged joints for ease of design for the arms, I had considered doing a forged(threaded) and a welded end, but then I would need a tube notcher and a certified welder to weld them up, I wouldn't take the chance of a weld braking on my control arms, especially one that I plan on driving to and from the trails. Doing right hand threaded joints just incase the lock nuts should ever come loose, it won't screw up the lengths of my arms.

For the single upper, I'll be running a right and a left hand thread, forged 2.63" Ballistic joints, 5'8" though bolts, with billet Nylatron races, 1.75" OD x .250" wall DOM, and tube adaptors/lock nuts.
Again forged at both ends, but this time to avoid having to make the "fork" end that the stock style arms have, and since I'm trussing the front axle, I'll be able to put a standard link bracket on the axle. The reason I'm doing left and right hand thread joints on the upper is because I don't really have to worry about any rotational load on the upper, since I'm going with a radius arm, and with only one upper arm, I will be able to set pinion angle with one hand, and an angle finder, but that will really only work if I do a single upper.

Total, I'm looking at about $670 shipped for the two lowers and single upper, and about $870 shipped if I decide to do both uppers. Really not bad if you think about it.


I was wrong on the Rubicon inner shaft length, after checking Superiors web site, I found that the Rubicon inner shafts are actually:

16.9" driver
and
31.88" passenger

Gotten from Superiors online catalog: axle shaft lengths, Dana 44 inner shafts.
PA6104- 68-79 Ford F-150 Short 18.91"
PA6116- 03-06 TJ Rubicon Short 16.9"
2.01" cut off the drivers side

PA6082- 68-79 Ford F-150 Long 33.91"
PA6094- 03-06 TJ Rubicon Long 31.88"
2.03" cut off the passenger side

And that should give me 62.96" WMS to WMS. Call it 63" since I doubt I'm good enough to measure and cut .01", maybe .03", but definitely not .01"

[Timo_90xj]

Originally Posted by hotrod_hooligan

Well, I'm pretty sure I've got the front arms all sorted out, for what size joints, tube, type of joint, design of the arms, etc.

For the lowers I'll be using right hand threaded, forged 2.63" Ballistic joints, 5'8" though bolts, with billet Nylatron races, at both ends, with 2" ODx .250" wall DOM, and tube adaptors/lock nuts.
I'm doing forged joints for ease of design for the arms, I had considered doing a forged(threaded) and a welded end, but then I would need a tube notcher and a certified welder to weld them up, I wouldn't take the chance of a weld braking on my control arms, especially one that I plan on driving to and from the trails. Doing right hand threaded joints just incase the lock nuts should ever come loose, it won't screw up the lengths of my arms.

Sounds like a good plan. I'm building my rear arms much the same way, although I'm still kinda balancing if I should use flex joints on both ends, or just the other end. I'm affraid running rubber or poly bushings on the other end would cause binding or even breakage.

I've seen them done both ways, and basically both should work fine..

I was wrong on the Rubicon inner shaft length, after checking Superiors web site, I found that the Rubicon inner shafts are actually:

16.9" driver
and
31.88" passenger

Gotten from Superiors online catalog: axle shaft lengths, Dana 44 inner shafts.
PA6104- 68-79 Ford F-150 Short 18.91"
PA6116- 03-06 TJ Rubicon Short 16.9"
2.01" cut off the drivers side

PA6082- 68-79 Ford F-150 Long 33.91"
PA6094- 03-06 TJ Rubicon Long 31.88"
2.03" cut off the passenger side

And that should give me 62.96" WMS to WMS. Call it 63" since I doubt I'm good enough to measure and cut .01", maybe .03", but definitely not .01"

That sounds like a perfect width to keep it pretty close to stock. You're going to run spacers in the rear?


I follow this thread with great interest