Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm new. Starter wiring, wiring and proper grounds. - JeepForum.com
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Unread 10-02-2012, 07:14 AM   #1
zimsy
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1993 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 31
Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm new. Starter wiring, wiring and proper grounds.

Both wires coming off my starter are positive correct? Since the body of the starter motor is grounded to the crank case right? I've now have 3 cables going to my positive terminal. 2 from the the solenoid and one from the fuse housing. Now what all needs to be grounded? I know the negative side of my battery should be grounded to the body or similar. What else am I missing? And thank you 5-90 for making me think a little and step back to really look at what was in front of me.

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Unread 10-03-2012, 03:35 PM   #2
JWELK
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Location: Ceiba, PR
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There are two cables from the neg battery. One to chassis, the other to the block. What are your symptoms?
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Unread 10-04-2012, 02:49 AM   #3
zimsy
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1993 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
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When I connect my negative terminal the engine tries to turn over without a key in the ignition. I since have grounded to the engine block and was told it was a fried starter solenoid and got a reman.
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Unread 10-05-2012, 10:06 AM   #4
zimsy
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Still trying to turn over with no key in and when I connect my negative battery wire!!!! This is frustrating!
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Unread 10-05-2012, 10:43 AM   #5
JWELK
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There are two wires going to the starter, a heavy red wire from the battery and another from a starter relay. This smaller wire should only have 12 volts when the key is in the start position. Near the battery is a black box with large and small fuses and several relays. Are you familiar with this? This box is called PDC Power Distribution Center. It gets it's power directly from the battery. It then distributes it to the Accessory switch, run switch and start switch. These three signals come back to the PDC on one of the cables under the box. On my 95 40 amp fuse 4 feeds the starter relay, letter F. I think yours is the same. Remove either relay F or fuse 4 and reconnect the red battery lead. Does the starter turn now? If no, swap relay A (Horn relay) with relay F, and see if the car tries to start. If it still cranks, the starter switch is stuck or broken. The switch is on the top of the column, disconnect the plugs and that should stop it from cranking. There is a connecting rod from the key to the switch. There are a number of posts describing how to remove, and repair or replace it.
Let us know,

Regards,

Jim W
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Unread 10-08-2012, 08:25 AM   #6
zimsy
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1993 XJ Cherokee 
 
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Location: Montgomery, AL
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Jim you're a genius. Just figured out what everything is called under the hood. I had been calling the Pdc the fuse box. Gonna use your advice this afternoon after I get some chores done. I'll let you know if she gets to runnin.
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Unread 10-08-2012, 09:38 AM   #7
5-90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zimsy View Post
Both wires coming off my starter are positive correct? Since the body of the starter motor is grounded to the crank case right? I've now have 3 cables going to my positive terminal. 2 from the the solenoid and one from the fuse housing. Now what all needs to be grounded? I know the negative side of my battery should be grounded to the body or similar. What else am I missing? And thank you 5-90 for making me think a little and step back to really look at what was in front of me.
Half marks.

Both are indeed positive. However:
- The larger of the two (OEM 6AWG) is "always hot" - it comes directly from the battery.
- The smaller of the two (OEM 14AWG) is "switched hot" - when you turn the key to START, the starter motor relay is energised, which then powers this lead. That allows the solenoid to pull in, extending the pinion gear, and closing the high-current contacts to power the starter motor proper.

If you don't have an FSM (Factory Service Manual,) get one! You can score them secondhand off of eBay with a little care for under $50 fairly consistently - and, with a little more work, usually under $25 (I have two shelves full of them at the moment - about a four-foot stack - and I don't think I paid more than $20 for any individual manual. Yep, I'm collecting them...)

A Chilton's is useful, but has holes. Haynes isn't worth bothering with. The FSM is what the Dealer techs use, and if it doesn't tell you what's going in, it's because of a change in equipment by a previous owner...
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Unread 10-08-2012, 03:15 PM   #8
zimsy
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Took out the relay and the battery sparks and its still trying to crank with no key. So the ignition switch needs to be replaced?
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Unread 10-11-2012, 02:15 PM   #9
JWELK
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Are you saying the starter cranks with the relay out? If yes, it is not the switch. The switch feeds (turns on) the relay, the relay turns on the solenoid, and the solenoid (mounted on the starter) turns on the starter. To verify you got the correct relay, remove both 40 amp fuses from the PDC. This will shut everything off and then reconnect the battery. If it still cranks it is the solenoid. This is the cylinder mounted on the starter, it also contains the bendix drive unit that engages the starter drive to the flywheel. It's other function is to provide a direct link to the battery.



Jim W
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Unread 10-14-2012, 04:15 PM   #10
zimsy
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Update. Got a new relay, pulled out the ignition switch and touch the negative battery cable to the battery and its still trying to crank. I am dumbfounded here. I'm stuck. I just put the new starter in last week and today tried to address the issue again since I had a day off finally. Is there any kind of fusable link I didn't wire in or is it a poor ground? Thanks again for the help.
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Unread 10-14-2012, 04:28 PM   #11
zimsy
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Location: Montgomery, AL
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And can someone tell me if I should have 2 large cables coming off the starter and then the smaller one for the ignition. I don't have factory cables any more. Is it possible to just make a small jumper since I don't have the combo positive cable that was in that rubber/plastic L shaped end?
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