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Unread 07-23-2009, 09:47 PM   #61
ajxj9197
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2009 WK 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bloomington, Illinois
Posts: 1,346
hoorayy! those extended flares bugged me. the new ones will look much better!

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Unread 07-24-2009, 05:17 AM   #62
stevieboy
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1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajxj9197 View Post
hoorayy! those extended flares bugged me. the new ones will look much better!
LOL, yeah they never really worked visually. They also had the effect of making the wheel well look even smaller. Now if I can find some time to get these on
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99' XJ ~4.0L6~NP231~6" Hybrid RC lift~MT Classic Lock~Detours Custom Light Bar Brushguard~Detours TailBone~Hooker Aero~aFe stage2~KC slimlines~JKS ACOS~JKS Disco.~JKS track bar~JCR T.C.Skid~JCR Stage 3 sliders~JK bumper fogs
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Unread 07-26-2009, 12:51 PM   #63
stevieboy
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1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 566
Alternator/Lights Question

Hey guys, I searched but didn't find an answer for this. Is there a formula we can use to know when to upgrade either alternator or battery or both? I currently have two KC slimlines(130w) on the bumper, and two Delta Tech JK fogs(mounted in the bumper-55w each). I will be adding a Surco rack and would like four lights on the rack, not sure what yet. How much is too much for the stock alternator and battery? Thanks for the help
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99' XJ ~4.0L6~NP231~6" Hybrid RC lift~MT Classic Lock~Detours Custom Light Bar Brushguard~Detours TailBone~Hooker Aero~aFe stage2~KC slimlines~JKS ACOS~JKS Disco.~JKS track bar~JCR T.C.Skid~JCR Stage 3 sliders~JK bumper fogs
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Unread 07-26-2009, 01:07 PM   #64
99Greenmachine
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1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,980
Sooo clean



Those JK lights look great
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'99 XJ Sport MY BUILD

Thank You Hooligan!!!

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Unread 07-26-2009, 01:50 PM   #65
stevieboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99Greenmachine View Post
Sooo clean



Those JK lights look great
Thanks man...do you have any suggestions/experience regarding my alternator/lights question? Post #63. Thanks.
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99' XJ ~4.0L6~NP231~6" Hybrid RC lift~MT Classic Lock~Detours Custom Light Bar Brushguard~Detours TailBone~Hooker Aero~aFe stage2~KC slimlines~JKS ACOS~JKS Disco.~JKS track bar~JCR T.C.Skid~JCR Stage 3 sliders~JK bumper fogs
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Unread 07-26-2009, 02:47 PM   #66
jeeposaurus
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1990 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 290
Battery and alternator upgrades can be figured out like'a this:

Battery will be your tank of water, and the alternator will be your source of water. The faster you draw water out of your tank (battery) the faster you will need to replenish it.

For the most part you always want more power (amps x volts) then you need. So lets say you have 4 100W lamps you want to run on your rack that means you need 400Watts of power to keep them on. If we change the Power = I (current) X V (voltage) we get: 400W / 12.0v = 33amps of current draw.

Your stock alternator should put out close to 100amps during idle so if we consider we have about 80 or so amps of power free to us (on board vehicle components use up some of the current the alternator kicks out) that gives us about 80amps X 12volts (approx.) = 960watts of total power possible.

Personally I wouldnt like to draw this much continuously out of a stock alternator but technically it is possible. When pulling this kind of power continuously you must be watchful of wire sizes (all wire is rated for certain max currents...you always want fuses to blow and wires to be safe, I overate all my wires ran to my lights and fuse them to just slightly more then they need (ie. light needs 15amps I fuse to 20amps....and I make sure my wire can take 30 or 40 amps without damage).

Hopefully that gives you someplace to start. If you have $$ burning holes in your pockets, a mean green alternator, upgraded battery cables, and a nice gel cell battery should be an awesome setup for power hungry lights and an amp guzzling winch). There is so much more to this then I have posted, but feel free to ask questions, volts and sparks are my profession and I do love educating anyone that listens. ....I also dont mind being corrected if someone finds a slip-up.
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1990 Black 2 Door, Homemade 3" lift, 31x10.5 BFG AT's on rock crawlers, recovery front and rear, bed lined interior, rockerless, armored rear quarters, magnaflow muffler, CB, DIY Immobilizer, AC to OBA, Silverstars and a nice rack.
Build Up:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/b...ild-up-820250/
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Unread 07-26-2009, 03:16 PM   #67
Chief84
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1994 XJ Cherokee 
 
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Posts: 11
You quoted the bumper fogs at 130, isw that each? If that is each, you are looking at 30 Amps for just those fogs. Looked up, and it is showing a 100 AMP alt. for a 99 xj. I would never depend on using any more than 2/3 of your alternator capacity so you can also trickle the battery. I don't know too much about roof-mount lighting, but I assume these would be brighter than the fog lights, meaning with 4 you would have to go with more power than the existing 4. That would put you JUST at about 2/3 of your atlernator capacity. If it can be done fairly cheaply, I would bump it up another fee amps, maybe to like 130-150, and I would definitely up the battery. Don't know how much space you have for the battery, but you can upgrade to a FULL Deep Cycle Battery, like one made for an ambulance or bus. They are pretty cheap, EASILY have enough power to crank your motor, and are built to have a lot of steady low amp draw, VS a cranking battery. Should last you 15 yrs.
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Unread 07-26-2009, 05:59 PM   #68
99Greenmachine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieboy View Post
Thanks man...do you have any suggestions/experience regarding my alternator/lights question? Post #63. Thanks.
Sorry I was so distracted by your jeep I forgot about your question...

I think the guys above have posted some good info, but I will add. If you need a better battery, the Optima Blue Top Marine battery is great and I cannot recommend it enough...it even has auxiliary posts for your accessories

There are beefier alternators in the JY like the 136A out of 1998 ZJs and Dodge vans. I'm not sure on the bolt up capability, but it is an upgrade that some have done and that is readily available.

I wanna also recommend that you upgrade your wiring for your battery...search the username "5-90" which is Kelly's Work in Progress. He makes HD battery replacement cables that are EXCELLENT. Especially the ground...which is important for all electrical connections especially like lights and winches.
__________________
'99 XJ Sport MY BUILD

Thank You Hooligan!!!

[SIZE="4"]XJ Dana 44, Yukon 4.56 D44 Gears, LeBaron hood vents for sale
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Unread 07-26-2009, 08:11 PM   #69
stevieboy
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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Posts: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeposaurus View Post
Battery and alternator upgrades can be figured out like'a this:

Battery will be your tank of water, and the alternator will be your source of water. The faster you draw water out of your tank (battery) the faster you will need to replenish it.

For the most part you always want more power (amps x volts) then you need. So lets say you have 4 100W lamps you want to run on your rack that means you need 400Watts of power to keep them on. If we change the Power = I (current) X V (voltage) we get: 400W / 12.0v = 33amps of current draw.

Your stock alternator should put out close to 100amps during idle so if we consider we have about 80 or so amps of power free to us (on board vehicle components use up some of the current the alternator kicks out) that gives us about 80amps X 12volts (approx.) = 960watts of total power possible.

Personally I wouldnt like to draw this much continuously out of a stock alternator but technically it is possible. When pulling this kind of power continuously you must be watchful of wire sizes (all wire is rated for certain max currents...you always want fuses to blow and wires to be safe, I overate all my wires ran to my lights and fuse them to just slightly more then they need (ie. light needs 15amps I fuse to 20amps....and I make sure my wire can take 30 or 40 amps without damage).

Hopefully that gives you someplace to start. If you have $$ burning holes in your pockets, a mean green alternator, upgraded battery cables, and a nice gel cell battery should be an awesome setup for power hungry lights and an amp guzzling winch). There is so much more to this then I have posted, but feel free to ask questions, volts and sparks are my profession and I do love educating anyone that listens. ....I also dont mind being corrected if someone finds a slip-up.
jeeposaurus-
Great info. thanks. I have a small working knowledge of electrical systems, but I must add I am brand new to the jeep world, and never have taken vehicle electrics to this level. It sounds like a logical next step would be a higher output alternator, and battery cables. What are running on your set-up? What I would love to see are multiple examples of what is tried and true on fellow XJ's. Thanks again...looking forward to discussing this in more depth with you
__________________
99' XJ ~4.0L6~NP231~6" Hybrid RC lift~MT Classic Lock~Detours Custom Light Bar Brushguard~Detours TailBone~Hooker Aero~aFe stage2~KC slimlines~JKS ACOS~JKS Disco.~JKS track bar~JCR T.C.Skid~JCR Stage 3 sliders~JK bumper fogs
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Unread 07-26-2009, 08:12 PM   #70
stevieboy
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1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Posts: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by 99Greenmachine View Post
Sorry I was so distracted by your jeep I forgot about your question...

I think the guys above have posted some good info, but I will add. If you need a better battery, the Optima Blue Top Marine battery is great and I cannot recommend it enough...it even has auxiliary posts for your accessories

There are beefier alternators in the JY like the 136A out of 1998 ZJs and Dodge vans. I'm not sure on the bolt up capability, but it is an upgrade that some have done and that is readily available.

I wanna also recommend that you upgrade your wiring for your battery...search the username "5-90" which is Kelly's Work in Progress. He makes HD battery replacement cables that are EXCELLENT. Especially the ground...which is important for all electrical connections especially like lights and winches.
I'll start searching for 5-90, check out the cable set-up. Thanks again.
__________________
99' XJ ~4.0L6~NP231~6" Hybrid RC lift~MT Classic Lock~Detours Custom Light Bar Brushguard~Detours TailBone~Hooker Aero~aFe stage2~KC slimlines~JKS ACOS~JKS Disco.~JKS track bar~JCR T.C.Skid~JCR Stage 3 sliders~JK bumper fogs
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Unread 07-26-2009, 09:01 PM   #71
99Greenmachine
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Posts: 2,980
here ya go, I was lazy earlier...

http://www.geocities.com/JeepI6Power/
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'99 XJ Sport MY BUILD

Thank You Hooligan!!!

[SIZE="4"]XJ Dana 44, Yukon 4.56 D44 Gears, LeBaron hood vents for sale
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Unread 07-26-2009, 09:02 PM   #72
jeeposaurus
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1990 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieboy View Post
jeeposaurus-
Great info. thanks. I have a small working knowledge of electrical systems, but I must add I am brand new to the jeep world, and never have taken vehicle electrics to this level. It sounds like a logical next step would be a higher output alternator, and battery cables. What are running on your set-up? What I would love to see are multiple examples of what is tried and true on fellow XJ's. Thanks again...looking forward to discussing this in more depth with you
No problem, sorry if I was talking down...its hard to realize what prior experience people have.

I am currently running upgraded silverstars for headlights, 2 100W driving ligths, a 300watt amplifier and some other nick nacks. I am not really pushing the stock system all that hard right now so I have a stock alternator with a motomaster eliminator gel cell battery (apparently very similar specs to the optima red top....actually I believe their cell chemistry and construction is identical, same manufacturer or something along those lines).
I need burst power more then I need sustained power (I also have a 400W inverter) so I went with a high discharge battery. I dont see myself needing any more external lighting so I like my current setup.
If I were to run a setup similar to yours I would stick with a gel cell battery (I am totally impressed with mine, I purposely let my jeep sit in -35C overnight once with no block heater plugged in and it still started up just fine in the morning). I would upgrade my ground wire to a larger grade, probably go to the local welding supply shop and pick a few gauges heavier then stock. I would also buy a new ZJ alternator (I believe those are the 136 amp ones) and grind a stock cherokee alternator bracket to fit (I have seen a write up for this...sadly its a little more work for my renix era jeep...should work fine for you tho). With all that done you would have a much stronger charging system at about half the cost of one of them beastly 300amp alternators!
I am currently looking into superbrightleds website to change over all my interior lighting to LED. Should shave a few amps off what the stockers use. There is a write up on that in the tech stickies.
__________________
1990 Black 2 Door, Homemade 3" lift, 31x10.5 BFG AT's on rock crawlers, recovery front and rear, bed lined interior, rockerless, armored rear quarters, magnaflow muffler, CB, DIY Immobilizer, AC to OBA, Silverstars and a nice rack.
Build Up:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/b...ild-up-820250/
325,000km young.
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Unread 07-26-2009, 09:07 PM   #73
stevieboy
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1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by 99Greenmachine View Post
here ya go, I was lazy earlier...

http://www.geocities.com/JeepI6Power/
greenmachine-
Thanks, looks like good reading
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99' XJ ~4.0L6~NP231~6" Hybrid RC lift~MT Classic Lock~Detours Custom Light Bar Brushguard~Detours TailBone~Hooker Aero~aFe stage2~KC slimlines~JKS ACOS~JKS Disco.~JKS track bar~JCR T.C.Skid~JCR Stage 3 sliders~JK bumper fogs
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Unread 07-26-2009, 09:14 PM   #74
connor0770
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Posts: 3,501
your XJ is amazing. i love everything you have done with it. im just waiting for some wheeling pictures =)
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Unread 07-26-2009, 09:19 PM   #75
stevieboy
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1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Posts: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeposaurus View Post
No problem, sorry if I was talking down...its hard to realize what prior experience people have.

I am currently running upgraded silverstars for headlights, 2 100W driving ligths, a 300watt amplifier and some other nick nacks. I am not really pushing the stock system all that hard right now so I have a stock alternator with a motomaster eliminator gel cell battery (apparently very similar specs to the optima red top....actually I believe their cell chemistry and construction is identical, same manufacturer or something along those lines).
I need burst power more then I need sustained power (I also have a 400W inverter) so I went with a high discharge battery. I dont see myself needing any more external lighting so I like my current setup.
If I were to run a setup similar to yours I would stick with a gel cell battery (I am totally impressed with mine, I purposely let my jeep sit in -35C overnight once with no block heater plugged in and it still started up just fine in the morning). I would upgrade my ground wire to a larger grade, probably go to the local welding supply shop and pick a few gauges heavier then stock. I would also buy a new ZJ alternator (I believe those are the 136 amp ones) and grind a stock cherokee alternator bracket to fit (I have seen a write up for this...sadly its a little more work for my renix era jeep...should work fine for you tho). With all that done you would have a much stronger charging system at about half the cost of one of them beastly 300amp alternators!
I am currently looking into superbrightleds website to change over all my interior lighting to LED. Should shave a few amps off what the stockers use. There is a write up on that in the tech stickies.
jeeposaurus-
No apologies necessary...I didn't feel you were talking down at all. I'm grateful for the help. You made some good recommendations. I'll do a battery upgrade and heavier ground cable. I'll also do some more reading on alternators. Let me know if you think of any more suggestions.
__________________
99' XJ ~4.0L6~NP231~6" Hybrid RC lift~MT Classic Lock~Detours Custom Light Bar Brushguard~Detours TailBone~Hooker Aero~aFe stage2~KC slimlines~JKS ACOS~JKS Disco.~JKS track bar~JCR T.C.Skid~JCR Stage 3 sliders~JK bumper fogs
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