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Unread 09-06-2013, 03:50 PM   #46
dave564
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Tell him I said 300 bucks to ship the weights is a lot cheaper than a funeral. Maybe that will help him take off the whole half ton.

Take the tire to any tire dealer. They might have to overnight the tire in, but should be about $50. Just use the bathroom scale and a jack stand to set the tongue weight to about 200 pounds. That would still be about 50 pounds shy of where you want to be, but will be close enough.

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Unread 09-07-2013, 03:51 AM   #47
Uniblurb
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I may not phase it quite so harsh but shipping the weights would be the best so he can take his other stuff.

I've checked a couple places on that "Loadstar K550 ST205/75D15 (F78-15) Load range C, 6ply tire" w/o the wheel and prices are $90-$112 mounted/balanced. Seems awfully high and most places carry radials where this one would need to be shipped in. May be worth it to buy tire/wheel combo together for $130 at those lone tire prices.

We'll be tearing the load off the trailer today and I did clear a place in my basement for storing some of his stuff. In addition to trying to get the trailer balance front-to-back to add some tongue weight I'm going to watch closely to make sure it's balanced side-to-side. Seems like we have too much weight on one side right now and will try to balance it out.
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Unread 09-07-2013, 12:02 PM   #48
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Maybe too late but really give some thought to light truck (LT) tires instead of trailer tires. Much easier to get and probably cheaper.
Also really give some thought to buying weight equipment out in California. Probably cheaper to buy the bulk of what he uses out there used off Craigalist and supplement by shipping out a few pieces from Ohio that he doesn't find in a reasonable time. Sell the rest in Ohio on Craigslist. Should nearly break even on the money - just the hassle of time.
I just saw over 1,000 people have now viewed this thread. Amazing! Looks like a lot of people are interested in your son's trip. Any forum members between Ohio and S Calif that would be willing to lend a hand and maybe a roof for the night should trouble arise? Just putting the thought out there. This is an amazing community.
Let us know when he leaves AND when he gets there.
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Unread 09-09-2013, 11:51 PM   #49
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The saga continues and my son still hasn't left on his trip since his house sale/closing here as been delayed again.

Sat. I ran down and bought him another new Lonestar trailer tire mounted on a new rim so at least he'll have 2 new ones on his single axle trailer.

Trying to get him to lighten the load of 2,380 lbs on his 2,990 lb rated trailer is like pulling teeth. Remember we had it weighed and the GTW is 3,500 with all his stuff loaded. Finally I agree to pay shipping charges of $275 and we removed about 600-700 lbs from his trailer. While it's pushing it (bad pun) hopefully he'll be able to handle the trip w/o trailer breaks hauling about 2,800 lbs GTW.

Since so many have shown an interest in this thread I took a few photos as can be seen below. This is when he trailer weighed 3,500 lbs fully loaded with 140 lbs of tongue weight.

The photos really don't show the rear sag on his 96 XJ since the trailer is positioned downhill towards the back while his XJ is more on level ground. While it doesn't look like it in the photos I do have the the trailer jack on the trailer tongue lifted off the ground to put weight on the hitch.

Not the best photos since it was right after sunrise when sun/shade interfered with the contrast some. Will keep you posted and thanks for the help/input!
96-xj-sport-fully-loaded-trailer-full-view-right-side-9-7-13.jpg

96-xj-sport-fully-loaded-trailer-house-max-9-7-13.jpg

96-xj-sport-fully-loaded-trailer-9-7-13.jpg

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Unread 09-10-2013, 01:47 AM   #50
LimeLJ
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Definitely follow the gross trailer weight rating. I find that trailer manufacturers usually do not leave much room for error.

As for trailer brakes I recommend that all trailers have them regardless when towing with a Cherokee due to stock braking capacity. However, I would personally be fine without trailer brakes up to 3,500 pounds assuming the Cherokee had the larger 10"x2.5" rear drums from the towing package.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 05:56 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LimeLJ View Post
Definitely follow the gross trailer weight rating. I find that trailer manufacturers usually do not leave much room for error.

As for trailer brakes I recommend that all trailers have them regardless when towing with a Cherokee due to stock braking capacity. However, I would personally be fine without trailer brakes up to 3,500 pounds assuming the Cherokee had the larger 10"x2.5" rear drums from the towing package.
Towing 3500 lbs in an XJ without trailer brakes is fine for you ? Have you ever tried it ?
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Unread 09-10-2013, 06:30 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LimeLJ View Post
Definitely follow the gross trailer weight rating. I find that trailer manufacturers usually do not leave much room for error.

As for trailer brakes I recommend that all trailers have them regardless when towing with a Cherokee due to stock braking capacity. However, I would personally be fine without trailer brakes up to 3,500 pounds assuming the Cherokee had the larger 10"x2.5" rear drums from the towing package.
Which years came with optional 10 x 2.5" rear drums as part of a tow package? Weren't those around through 89 or 90? and also used on Dana 44s. I don't think later years offered a 10x2.5 rear drum? only a 10x1.75 that was part of a police package.

There are several disc brake conversions.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 07:26 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LimeLJ View Post
Definitely follow the gross trailer weight rating. I find that trailer manufacturers usually do not leave much room for error.

As for trailer brakes I recommend that all trailers have them regardless when towing with a Cherokee due to stock braking capacity. However, I would personally be fine without trailer brakes up to 3,500 pounds assuming the Cherokee had the larger 10"x2.5" rear drums from the towing package.
The GTWR is 2,990 and the GTW is now around 2,800 lbs after removing some of the heavier items. Still would have liked to get the GTW around 2,500-2,600 lbs since there's no trailer brakes.

He doesn't have the tow package and has 9" rear drums on a 35C axle. As mentioned before I just installed new riveted 9" rear shoes, spring kit and all hwd. I didn't install new drums or mess with the calipers since they looked fine and probably changed them out 1-2 years ago when I installed new ceramic pads, rebuilt calipers, along with rotors on the front. And in just changing out the brake line to the rear junction block I did a complete brake fluid flush of back/front which should help some.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 12:05 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Uniblurb View Post
The GTWR is 2,990 and the GTW is now around 2,800 lbs after removing some of the heavier items. Still would have liked to get the GTW around 2,500-2,600 lbs since there's no trailer brakes.

He doesn't have the tow package and has 9" rear drums on a 35C axle. As mentioned before I just installed new riveted 9" rear shoes, spring kit and all hwd. I didn't install new drums or mess with the calipers since they looked fine and probably changed them out 1-2 years ago when I installed new ceramic pads, rebuilt calipers, along with rotors on the front. And in just changing out the brake line to the rear junction block I did a complete brake fluid flush of back/front which should help some.
the sway issue is because you don't have enough % of the trailers weight on the tongue; for a road trip like you are describing you should be targeting at least 15% (when he is up on speed and heading down a mountain a sway starting at 70mph could kill him)

i'd be worrying less about reducing the trailer weight and focus on getting the tail of the xj to not squat all the way to the ground (your 140lb tongue weight is waaaay to low)

fyi,
my college roommate did exactly what you are describing (to little truck to big trailer); he made it about 300 miles and the trailer sway tipped his 1991 s-10 jimmy on its side during rush hour Kansas City traffic. He blocked 3 lanes of interstate for about an hour while they cleaned up all his earthly belongings from the road.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 12:45 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbenez1 View Post
Towing 3500 lbs in an XJ without trailer brakes is fine for you ? Have you ever tried it ?
Yes, I have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anony View Post
Which years came with optional 10 x 2.5" rear drums as part of a tow package? Weren't those around through 89 or 90? and also used on Dana 44s. I don't think later years offered a 10x2.5 rear drum? only a 10x1.75 that was part of a police package.

There are several disc brake conversions.
Definitely on the D44... Looking forward in years I see there are still 2.5" wide drums, but only in 9" it seems. That is my mistake, but I would still be happy with the wider drums for towing due to the wider contact area.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 01:27 PM   #56
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I think the XJ looks pretty good in the photos, but that makes me think maybe the trailer is not balanced for enough tongue weight, which as others have said will result in unacceptable tail wagging. Be sure the weight starts out at about 350 - 400 lbs (2900 x 10-15%) and work from there. If the trailer is pushing the XJ less tongue weight. If its swaying, more tongue weight.

And, with no trailer brakes, tell him 60 mph is the limit unless he can see nothing in front of him for a long way.

EDIT: oooh, I just read that about 140lb tongue weight. That's a way to get killed. No way. Start heavy at 400 lb and work backwards until it just starts to wag when you let off the gas going down a long hill. The up the ante about 50 pounds. And, if he stops and removes stuff from the trailer, make him re-calibrate the tongue weight.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 05:18 PM   #57
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Ididnt read trhough everything, just skimmed a bit.

Get a sway bar for your hitch, not a load leveler, a sway bar. It will be extremely helpful to help control the trailer, especially since the trailer doesnt have brakes. It won't solve the problem, but it can make controlling the heavy trailer a lot easeir.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 05:19 PM   #58
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After shifting the load around and removing some of the heaviest items I measured the tongue weight this morning. It's at 250 lbs which is around 9% of the 2,800 lb GTW. My son wanted to move more of the heavy items back behind his trailer axle because his XJ is squatting in the rear. Told him no way since we need at least that much tongue weight. So it's pretty much a done deal and we tarped/strapped the load down on the trailer.

He took it for a test drive up to 60mph and said it handles a whole lot better than it did before w/no wagging. But he also said 60 is probably going to be his speed limit and he didn't like going around a gradual corner at about 50mph on our road. This is the speed limit and think he just found out corners are going to be have to taken slow.

It's 95 degrees here today and he said his temp was going good, under 210, even when he drove through traffic/stopped at lights while running the AC. But when he came up my step/windy 900' gravel drive in PT 4WD the engine temp went up to about 220 once he reached the top. Not sure what that's all about and already put a new trans oil cooler on it with new fan clutch to cool it down. Thought maybe about changing the T-stat and antifreeze but did this a year ago when I installed a new rad/water pump.

He e-fan seems to kick on good and automatically on when the AC's on. Heard somebody say the motors in them weaken with age/heat but seems like it's working ok to me.

Thanks for the input!

BTW, I know the tongue weight and balancing the load is critical. It's evident this stock 96 4.0 XJ wasn't meant to haul a large loaded trailer cross-country. But if you increase the tongue weight to 420 lbs (15%) of GTW you're going to lose some steering control with the rear squatted and front ready to come off the ground. Seems like a vicious circle....
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Unread 09-10-2013, 06:56 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Uniblurb View Post
...BTW, I know the tongue weight and balancing the load is critical. It's evident this stock 96 4.0 XJ wasn't meant to haul a large loaded trailer cross-country. But if you increase the tongue weight to 420 lbs (15%) of GTW you're going to lose some steering control with the rear squatted and front ready to come off the ground. Seems like a vicious circle....
This is a very valid point, I've been there.
250lbs is 8.9% and getting pretty close to the minimum recommended 10%. I'd probably have a queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach the entire drive. No, I'd probably find something in the back of the XJ that could ride on the front of the trailer. The spare tire secured flat on the tongue would probably suffice.
Nice work on your part in bringing the numbers so much closer to realistically feasible by getting the weights set out of the picture.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 07:40 PM   #60
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This is a very valid point, I've been there.
250lbs is 8.9% and getting pretty close to the minimum recommended 10%. I'd probably have a queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach the entire drive. No, I'd probably find something in the back of the XJ that could ride on the front of the trailer. The spare tire secured flat on the tongue would probably suffice.
Nice work on your part in bringing the numbers so much closer to realistically feasible by getting the weights set out of the picture.
So if there's not enough tongue weight, at least 10%, is that what would cause the trailer to wag back/forth when going down hill? I tried to tell my son to drive down this steep hill in a 50mph zone just 1-2 miles down the road and he said it's too bumpy where it wouldn't be the same as a freeway. Well, not all freeways are smooth and some of the expansion joints in freeways around here are so heaved it feels like driving on a washboard.

His spare is only a doughnut and do think that would suffice for bolting or strapping to the tongue? Figure he only needs 30 more pounds to make it 10%. I just hope if he drives through rain his front tires will have enough traction if the front is up while rear is squatted.

Thanks, I tried the best I could to make him lose the weights. Of course I'm going to pay for it literally!
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