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Unread 05-08-2013, 06:39 AM   #1
allready_gone
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1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Florida
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99 XJ Running Hot Round 3!!

Here is the link to my previous thread from 2009 on this vehicle. This will give you some background information. http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/9...eating-848085/

At some point after the last post in that thread, we changed the clutch fan and my creeping temperature problem went away. The only problem I still had with her, up until April, was the needle creeping up if I ran her past 70mph on the highway for a longer trip. If I kept her at or under 70 she did fine.

Fast forward to April 2013. Ran her down to Venice (approximately 3 hours) and noticed on the way home that she was running close to the next line past 210 for a good portion of the trip. Haven't seen that in a long time and it made me very nervous. Took her home and changed out the thermostat (with a 160 as recommended by someone else) and gave her a good flushing. After that she had the creeping needle at idle and slow traffic again so we went ahead and changed out the fan clutch and belt. Now the needle is just on a gradual creep as she drives. Drove her about 25 minutes yesterday, stop and go in residential neighborhood on the way there, 55mph pretty steady on the way back and in that time the needle pushes to the point where the electrical fan kicks on. Outside temps were low 70's last night. Neighbor is pressure testing the system tonight or tomorrow but I have to make a 45 minute drive tonight for a mandatory class orientation so I may have an update before then.

Any ideas from all of you gurus? Could it be the water pump? I've put roughly 50K on her since then.

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Unread 05-08-2013, 08:14 AM   #2
bobthecatkiller
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This most likely wont fix your problem but I'd put a stock 195 thermostat back in.
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Unread 05-08-2013, 08:51 AM   #3
TheBoogieman
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My 2000' runs at that temp and I was told not to worry about it.I don't think my e fan is coming on though.Every Jeep I've ever owned ran at 210 no matter what the outside temps were.I've got a new radiator,thermostat,water pump and hoses.
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Unread 05-08-2013, 11:11 AM   #4
CJ7-Tim
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Just because something was new a few years ago, doesn't mean it works now.


Overheating can be caused by anything that decreases the cooling system’s ability to absorb, transport, and dissipate heat, such as a low coolant level, loss of coolant (through internal or external leaks), poor heat conductivity inside the engine because of accumulated mineral deposits in the water jackets or radiator, a defective thermostat that doesn’t open, poor airflow through the radiator, a slipping fan clutch, an inoperative electric cooling fan, a collapsed lower radiator hose, an eroded or loose water pump impeller or even a defective radiator cap.

The cooling system is a group of related parts that depend on proper function from each of its component parts to keep the engine cool. Service the cooling system and replace any under-performing or suspected weak parts. Any component part of the cooling system that is not fully doing its job will stress the others and your cooling system will overheat. Temperature creep on the 4x4 trails, at idle, or in stop-n-go traffic points to a weak or failing mechanical fan clutch.

The most important maintenance item is to flush and refill the coolant periodically. Coolant should be replaced every 36,000 miles, or every two to three years. Anti-freeze has a number of additives that are designed to prevent corrosion in the cooling system, but they have a limited life span. The corrosion causes scale that eventually builds up and begins to clog the thin flat tubes in the radiator and heater core, causing the engine to eventually overheat.


-Use a flushing/cleaning solution and then drain and fill the radiator with a fresh 50/50 coolant and water mix. With a neglected cooling system you may have to flush several times.
-Inspect the radiator for mud/bugs/grass clogging the outside and mineral deposits clogging the inside. Clean or replace as needed.
-Replace the thermostat with a STANT or Robertshaw 195* thermostat. Cheap thermostats are cheap for a reason.
-Replace the radiator cap if your Jeep has one. An old worn out radiator cap will allow boil overs and/or allow the coolant flash over into to steam. You will see the coolant temps suddenly jump from 210* to the Red Zone and back to 210* if your radiator cap is weak.
-Inspect/test or replace the mechanical fan clutch. A worn fan clutch will allow temperature creep at stoplights, in heavy traffic, and on the 4x4 trails. A fan clutch that “looks” OK is not the same as working OK.
-Inspect the electric cooling fan and the fan relay. Apply 12 volts and make sure the fan runs. Exchange the cooling fan relay with one of the others similar relays. Confirm that the e-fan starts when engine temps reach 215-218*. Repair or replace the fan or relay as needed.
-Inspect/test or replace the coolant temperature sensor that activates the e-fan.
-Replace the water pump. The pumping fins can deteriorate over time and the pump will not flow enough coolant to keep the temps under control.
-Inspect/replace the radiator hoses. Make sure the coiled wire is installed in the lower hose.

If you have covered all the points listed above and still have overheating issues, inspect and test the head for cracks and head gasket for leaks. Exhaust gasses entering the coolant can raise the temperature of the coolant or cause steam pockets in the coolant that will temporarily block the flow of coolant

Read more about cooling systems here –

www.offroaders.com/tech/engine-overheating.htm

www.familycar.com/classroom/coolingsystem.htm
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Unread 05-08-2013, 11:36 AM   #5
TheBoogieman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7-Tim View Post
Just because something was new a few years ago, doesn't mean it works now.


Overheating can be caused by anything that decreases the cooling system’s ability to absorb, transport, and dissipate heat, such as a low coolant level, loss of coolant (through internal or external leaks), poor heat conductivity inside the engine because of accumulated mineral deposits in the water jackets or radiator, a defective thermostat that doesn’t open, poor airflow through the radiator, a slipping fan clutch, an inoperative electric cooling fan, a collapsed lower radiator hose, an eroded or loose water pump impeller or even a defective radiator cap.

The cooling system is a group of related parts that depend on proper function from each of its component parts to keep the engine cool. Service the cooling system and replace any under-performing or suspected weak parts. Any component part of the cooling system that is not fully doing its job will stress the others and your cooling system will overheat. Temperature creep on the 4x4 trails, at idle, or in stop-n-go traffic points to a weak or failing mechanical fan clutch.

The most important maintenance item is to flush and refill the coolant periodically. Coolant should be replaced every 36,000 miles, or every two to three years. Anti-freeze has a number of additives that are designed to prevent corrosion in the cooling system, but they have a limited life span. The corrosion causes scale that eventually builds up and begins to clog the thin flat tubes in the radiator and heater core, causing the engine to eventually overheat.


-Use a flushing/cleaning solution and then drain and fill the radiator with a fresh 50/50 coolant and water mix. With a neglected cooling system you may have to flush several times.
-Inspect the radiator for mud/bugs/grass clogging the outside and mineral deposits clogging the inside. Clean or replace as needed.
-Replace the thermostat with a STANT or Robertshaw 195* thermostat. Cheap thermostats are cheap for a reason.
-Replace the radiator cap if your Jeep has one. An old worn out radiator cap will allow boil overs and/or allow the coolant flash over into to steam. You will see the coolant temps suddenly jump from 210* to the Red Zone and back to 210* if your radiator cap is weak.
-Inspect/test or replace the mechanical fan clutch. A worn fan clutch will allow temperature creep at stoplights, in heavy traffic, and on the 4x4 trails. A fan clutch that “looks” OK is not the same as working OK.
-Inspect the electric cooling fan and the fan relay. Apply 12 volts and make sure the fan runs. Exchange the cooling fan relay with one of the others similar relays. Confirm that the e-fan starts when engine temps reach 215-218*. Repair or replace the fan or relay as needed.
-Inspect/test or replace the coolant temperature sensor that activates the e-fan.
-Replace the water pump. The pumping fins can deteriorate over time and the pump will not flow enough coolant to keep the temps under control.
-Inspect/replace the radiator hoses. Make sure the coiled wire is installed in the lower hose.

If you have covered all the points listed above and still have overheating issues, inspect and test the head for cracks and head gasket for leaks. Exhaust gasses entering the coolant can raise the temperature of the coolant or cause steam pockets in the coolant that will temporarily block the flow of coolant

Read more about cooling systems here –

www.offroaders.com/tech/engine-overheating.htm

www.familycar.com/classroom/coolingsystem.htm
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Unread 05-08-2013, 12:07 PM   #6
allready_gone
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I appreciate all of the information but I can see I wasn't clear enough in my previous posts. In April we changed the thermostat after she started running warm again. We also changed the rad cap even though it appeared to be fine. This past weekend, when the needle was only creeping at idle temps and slow traffic, we changed the fan clutch, the belt and the temperature sensor. During this time, the engine was also flushed and coolant replaced, however, I don't think we were aware that there was a specific flushing solution, so that's great information. The link to the previous post was strictly for back story. The items that were replaced in 2009 that have not been replaced since are the water pump, radiator and hoses. The electric fan does kick on at 215-218 as previously stated and also when the air is running. It appears to be doing it's job in that the temperature gauge does drop some after the fan kicks on.

I am open to and grateful for all suggestions if anyone has anything to add.

Donna

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7-Tim View Post
Just because something was new a few years ago, doesn't mean it works now.


Overheating can be caused by anything that decreases the cooling system’s ability to absorb, transport, and dissipate heat, such as a low coolant level, loss of coolant (through internal or external leaks), poor heat conductivity inside the engine because of accumulated mineral deposits in the water jackets or radiator, a defective thermostat that doesn’t open, poor airflow through the radiator, a slipping fan clutch, an inoperative electric cooling fan, a collapsed lower radiator hose, an eroded or loose water pump impeller or even a defective radiator cap.

The cooling system is a group of related parts that depend on proper function from each of its component parts to keep the engine cool. Service the cooling system and replace any under-performing or suspected weak parts. Any component part of the cooling system that is not fully doing its job will stress the others and your cooling system will overheat. Temperature creep on the 4x4 trails, at idle, or in stop-n-go traffic points to a weak or failing mechanical fan clutch.

The most important maintenance item is to flush and refill the coolant periodically. Coolant should be replaced every 36,000 miles, or every two to three years. Anti-freeze has a number of additives that are designed to prevent corrosion in the cooling system, but they have a limited life span. The corrosion causes scale that eventually builds up and begins to clog the thin flat tubes in the radiator and heater core, causing the engine to eventually overheat.


-Use a flushing/cleaning solution and then drain and fill the radiator with a fresh 50/50 coolant and water mix. With a neglected cooling system you may have to flush several times.
-Inspect the radiator for mud/bugs/grass clogging the outside and mineral deposits clogging the inside. Clean or replace as needed.
-Replace the thermostat with a STANT or Robertshaw 195* thermostat. Cheap thermostats are cheap for a reason.
-Replace the radiator cap if your Jeep has one. An old worn out radiator cap will allow boil overs and/or allow the coolant flash over into to steam. You will see the coolant temps suddenly jump from 210* to the Red Zone and back to 210* if your radiator cap is weak.
-Inspect/test or replace the mechanical fan clutch. A worn fan clutch will allow temperature creep at stoplights, in heavy traffic, and on the 4x4 trails. A fan clutch that “looks” OK is not the same as working OK.
-Inspect the electric cooling fan and the fan relay. Apply 12 volts and make sure the fan runs. Exchange the cooling fan relay with one of the others similar relays. Confirm that the e-fan starts when engine temps reach 215-218*. Repair or replace the fan or relay as needed.
-Inspect/test or replace the coolant temperature sensor that activates the e-fan.
-Replace the water pump. The pumping fins can deteriorate over time and the pump will not flow enough coolant to keep the temps under control.
-Inspect/replace the radiator hoses. Make sure the coiled wire is installed in the lower hose.

If you have covered all the points listed above and still have overheating issues, inspect and test the head for cracks and head gasket for leaks. Exhaust gasses entering the coolant can raise the temperature of the coolant or cause steam pockets in the coolant that will temporarily block the flow of coolant

Read more about cooling systems here –

www.offroaders.com/tech/engine-overheating.htm

www.familycar.com/classroom/coolingsystem.htm
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Unread 05-08-2013, 05:44 PM   #7
CJ7-Tim
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Normal operating temps are about 195*-215* as indicated on the dashboard gauge. If the e-fan runs, and temps drop back down to about 210* while it is running, then everything is fine.

If your temps are creeping up beyond 215*-220*, you need to service the cooling system.
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Unread 05-08-2013, 05:50 PM   #8
RIPNBST
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It's a band aid for sure but add "water wetter" to your coolant. It increases the thermal conductivity of your fluid and it actually works. I used to run it in my race car with a non-idiot gauge type temp gauge and it worked well to keep on track temps lower.

When I did it I did it for increased performance out of my cooling system. Not to fix a borderline overheat condition.
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Unread 05-11-2013, 04:00 PM   #9
allready_gone
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We actually suspect the water wetter may be contributing to the problem. I had used it a couple of times, and now I have a gel like substance or "gunk" in a few of the places we've been. We have now established the problem is not the water pump or the hoses. We are down to the radiator which we believe may be clogged by the same "gunk." It was not long after I put the 2nd bottle of water wetter in that this problem started. When I first started digging in the forums, several people were opposed to the water wetter because they had a problem with it forming a orange or brown gel like substance. We are looking at the radiator next.




Quote:
Originally Posted by RIPNBST View Post
It's a band aid for sure but add "water wetter" to your coolant. It increases the thermal conductivity of your fluid and it actually works. I used to run it in my race car with a non-idiot gauge type temp gauge and it worked well to keep on track temps lower.

When I did it I did it for increased performance out of my cooling system. Not to fix a borderline overheat condition.
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Unread 05-12-2013, 05:07 AM   #10
Newtons3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allready_gone View Post
We actually suspect the water wetter may be contributing to the problem. I had used it a couple of times, and now I have a gel like substance or "gunk" in a few of the places we've been. We have now established the problem is not the water pump or the hoses. We are down to the radiator which we believe may be clogged by the same "gunk." It was not long after I put the 2nd bottle of water wetter in that this problem started. When I first started digging in the forums, several people were opposed to the water wetter because they had a problem with it forming a orange or brown gel like substance. We are looking at the radiator next.
I cant say for sure that what youve found is not caused by Water Wetter. I can say that Ive used that and Purple Ice for years in race cars, road vehicles, and equipment with no build up and only excellent results. I do see what you are describing literally every day. I am fightiog a problem at work in our fleet with incompatable antifreezes. My bosses made poor decisions and we have ended up with a nightmare of plugged radiators and leaking components. Without getting into the long winded explanation, the AF you put in must agree with what is in there. We have had failures due to compatability even after complete system replacement due to residual left in the block and head.
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Unread 05-12-2013, 09:41 AM   #11
allready_gone
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Newton, we suspect this engine had dexcool in it at some point before I got the vehicle in 2009. Is that what you're referring to when you say incompatible antifreeze?
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Unread 05-12-2013, 10:08 AM   #12
Newtons3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allready_gone View Post
Newton, we suspect this engine had dexcool in it at some point before I got the vehicle in 2009. Is that what you're referring to when you say incompatible antifreeze?
Absolutely. I love Dexcool and run Havoline Long Life with Dexcool in all of my personal stuff. But, it seems to react poorly to some of the other additive packages. I can also tell you that if a propylene glycol AF got mixed with an ethylene glycol AF, the result is a brown goo that gums up the system. GM had a TSB on it years ago. Thats what Im fighting at work now. Nasty. Weve also seen issues with other -environmentally friendly- solutions not mixing well.
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