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Unread 06-28-2013, 01:32 PM   #1
firemedic1434
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99 XJ 4.0l I6 stalled out during ac recharge, no restart

On Sunday I was recharging my AC after a full replacement, while putting in the final bit of the R134, reaching desired pressures and finally having cold air and condensate indicating all was moving forward as desired.

When adjusting the can of R134, settled on the passenger side over the cruise controler, the engine just stopped. No burps, sputters, hiccups, thumps or any noise to indicate a serious issue, and no fluids of any sort anywhere, never overheated, all fans working at the time, adequate fluids, good fuel.

Engine would not restart. Waited for cool down over an hour, no go.

Disconnected battery overnight. No go.

Replaced CPS (Auotzone POS, but under warranty and no new charge), and still no go.

Checking ignition coil. over 12 ohms on output test, .9 ohms on input test.

Does this need to be replaced because the input ohms are slightly below spec?

Also, would a slightly corroded chassis ground by the battery be sufficient to cause such a condition?

Any help would be appreciated. My 15 year old daughter is quite concerned that her future vehicle my be 10-07 permanently. I refuse to call it dead. Only has a 105K, and my daughter is determined to use the tape deck while driving with her friends.

Any help is appreciated. All fuses and relays have been checked, no issues. Fuel to the rail under pressure. 12 volts with the battery.

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Unread 06-28-2013, 06:38 PM   #2
CJ7-Tim
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Fully describe the no-start. What does the Jeep do that is different, or not do that was/is normal ? What do you see, feel, and hear ? Starter engages or not ? Tries to run or not ?


The no-start may be a low voltage issue from:
  • leaving the lights on
  • a failing battery
  • a failing alternator
  • dirty, corroded, or loose wire connections
  • internally corroded battery wires
Perform routine maintenance of the start and charge systems. Remove, clean, and firmly reconnect all the wires and cables to the battery, starter, and alternator. Look for corroded or damaged cables or connectors and replace as needed. Copper wires should be copper color, not black or green. Do the same for the grounding wires from the starter to engine block, and from the battery and engine to the Jeep's frame/body. You must remove, scrape, and clean until shiny, the cable/wire ends, and whatever they bolt to. Jeeps do not tolerate low voltage, bad connections, or poor grounds.

Place your DVOM (Digital Volt Ohm Multi-Meter) on the 20 volt scale. First check battery voltage by placing your multi-meter's positive lead on the battery's positive post ( the actual post, not the clamp) and the negative lead on the negative post. You need a minimum of 12 volts to continue testing. Next, leave your meter connected and take a reading while the engine is cranking. Record this voltage reading. Now connect your positive lead to the battery terminal stud on the starter and the negative lead to the starter housing. Again, crank the engine and record the voltage reading. If the voltage reading at the starter is not within 1 volt of battery voltage then you have excessive voltage drop in the starter circuit.

Typical voltage drop maximums:


• starter circuit (including starter solenoid) = 0.60 volt

• battery post to battery terminal end =zero volts

• battery main cable (measured end to end)0.20 volt

• starter solenoid = 0.20 volt

• battery negative post to alternator metal frame = 0.20 volt

• negative main cable to engine block =0.20 volt

• negative battery post to starter metal frame = 0.30

• battery positive post to alternator b+ stud = 0.5 volt with maximum charging load applied (all accessories turned on)


Test the output at the alternator with your volts/ohms multi-meter. You should be measuring 13.8-14.4volts. Load testing the alternator is still recommended.

Exchange the ASD relay with the Starter relay in the fuse box under the hood near the battery.

Wiggle the automatic transmission lever in both Park and Neutral while trying to start. If it starts,you need to clean or replace the Neutral Safety Switch (NSS).

Have your helper turn the ignition key to START while you tap on the starter with a hammer. If the engine starts, you probably need a new starter.

Have the battery, starter, and the alternator Load Tested for proper functioning a test machine that applies a simulated work load. Handheld testers are inaccurate and will often pass faulty parts.
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Unread 06-28-2013, 07:29 PM   #3
79chiefs
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Does it turn over, have a car before where compressor froze up, and so did the ac clutch, and it would not turn over.
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Unread 06-28-2013, 09:33 PM   #4
skyway0018746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79chiefs View Post
Does it turn over, have a car before where compressor froze up, and so did the ac clutch, and it would not turn over.
If it wont turn over, this was my guess. ( or turns over slow)
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Unread 06-28-2013, 10:30 PM   #5
firemedic1434
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All of the testing was done. New alt a few months ago. Starter is good. Voltage drops on the starter path WNL. The AC compressor blew a while ago, and it was replaced with new, along with the orifice and drier. The engine was running fine during the coolant recharge.

The engine just died.

Cranks and cranks, but won't catch. Switched the ADS, no change. Fuel pressure is good. Wiggle of PRNDL has no change.

CPS replaced. no change.

Concern is with ignition coil. What is minimum outputs on bench test for the coil? Cap and rotor are newer, no corrosion or signs of early/misfire.

Vehicle was running great prior to getting some chill into the ac system.
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Unread 06-29-2013, 06:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firemedic1434 View Post
All of the testing was done. New alt a few months ago. Starter is good. Voltage drops on the starter path WNL. The AC compressor blew a while ago, and it was replaced with new, along with the orifice and drier. The engine was running fine during the coolant recharge.

The engine just died.

Cranks and cranks, but won't catch. Switched the ADS, no change. Fuel pressure is good. Wiggle of PRNDL has no change.

CPS replaced. no change.

Concern is with ignition coil. What is minimum outputs on bench test for the coil? Cap and rotor are newer, no corrosion or signs of early/misfire.

Vehicle was running great prior to getting some chill into the ac system.
Secondary should be between 11,300 - 15,300 Ohms.
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Unread 06-29-2013, 06:07 PM   #7
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I would try to determine if it is a fuel or spark issue first. Spray some starting fluid into the air intake while someone turns the engine over and see if it will fire momentarily. If so you will know it is a fuel issue. If not remove a plug and test for fire. Knowing which is not working will shorten the list of possibilities.
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Unread 06-30-2013, 04:57 PM   #8
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May sound dumb but wiggle each of your fuel injectors 1 by 1 and try to start it each time.
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Unread 07-11-2013, 04:22 PM   #9
firemedic1434
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Traced back all of the wiring from the sensors to the ECM to make sure no continuity issues. All is fine with the wiring.

"Re-grounded" the negative connections.

Replaced CPS, 2nd time in 2 weeks.

Good fuel pressure on the rail. Entire rail connections were pushed and checked without any change.

A/C clutch is free, engine cranks easily. No binding on the beltway.


Engine simply cranks.

What are the top three items outside of the ECM that would cause this? ASD has been swapped out and no fuses blown.

Any help is appreciated.
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Unread 07-11-2013, 07:00 PM   #10
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Check fuses 10 and 11 in the Junction Block. Fuse 10, 15A, powers the relay control coils for the AC clutch relay, and the radiator fan relay (Amongst others). Fuse 11, 20A, powers the relay control coil for the ASD relay, and the fuel pump relay. Power to these fuses is from the ignition switch in the RUN postion.

JB:



PDC:



Edit:

Also check security of the PDC itself. Make sure it's latched down securely. The PDC has a mind of its own and can do strange things if not secure.
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Unread 07-11-2013, 07:07 PM   #11
skyway0018746
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Did you check if you have spark by using starting fluid? Need to see if its a spark or fuel issue.
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Unread 07-16-2013, 10:35 AM   #12
firemedic1434
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I checked the fuses, all is good.

I do not have spark, but I do have fuel.

Does the ASD disable the ignition side or the fuel side of the engine?

Also, would I still have fuel if the PCM is shot? Are the two systems fully integrated into the computer, or simply share the same box?

I am able to conduct the self test of the dash gauges without any problem, and no codes. Based on what I ahve been reading, am I correct in assuming that good communication exists between the PCM and the dash, as I have no bus error or other indications of problems?

Thanks.
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Unread 07-16-2013, 10:49 AM   #13
skyway0018746
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Sounds like your pcm is fine. Did you check the coil pack , cap, rotor and wires?
Check for power at the coil too.
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Unread 07-16-2013, 10:12 PM   #14
firemedic1434
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Cap is intact, no signs of any arcing or other malfunction. Points are in good shape. Rotor is intact, no cracking or warping. Wires are in good shape, about 3 years old.

Coil pack bench tested WNL, as submitted above at 11.8.

I'll have to double check the power at the coil.

I'm running out of ideas here.

Why would it just up and die after running fine?

Always wanted a project car.......
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Unread 07-17-2013, 06:56 AM   #15
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Ref. post #12:

The ASD functions seperately from the fuel pump.

The PCM controls both circuits by providing a ground to the relay(s) control coil(s).

The ASD powers the Ignition Coil, Fuel Injectors, and O2S Heaters.

The ASD is activated when it receives a signal from the CPS that the engne is turning.

The fuel pump relay is activated by the PCM for 1-2 seconds to prime the fuel rail when the ignition switch is placed to RUN, then activated full time when the PCM receives a signal from the CPS that the engine is turning.

In your case, you are interested in the ASD relay. You should check to see if the (ground) wire from the PCM to the ASD relay control coil is intact, and if the PCM internal relay control driver is active.

Try this:

You will need a digital Voltmeter set to 20 VDC.

Remove the ASD relay from the PDC,

Turn ignition switch OFF,

Touch pin cavity 85 in the ASD relay socket (see pics below) with the meter (+) probe and the (-) probe to the battery (-) post. You should read from .01 to .150 Volts. If you don't get a reading, switch meter to the 2 VDC scale.

Repeat test with the ignition switch to RUN, without cranking the engine. The voltage reading may change a bit.

The .01 to .150 volts is the PCM idle voltage. It is the differential between the CCD Data Bus (+) and (-) circuit voltages.

If you don't get any voltage reading at all, two things may be happening: 1) the CCD Bus (+) and (-) circuit voltages are exactly the same (unlikely) or 2) the ground circuit wire from the PCM to ASD relay pin cavity 85 is open. If the circuit wire is open the ASD relay will not be activated.

While you're at the ASD relay socket, check for voltage at the ASD relay pin cavity 86. With the ignition switch to RUN, touch pin cavity 86 with meter (+), and (-) to batt (-) post. You should see approximately battery voltage. Pin cavity 86 is fed from fuse 11 in the JB. It is the power side of the ASD relay control coil. If you don't get any voltage reading, check fuse #11 in the JB.

ASD Relay socket/pin cavities:



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