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Unread 03-26-2013, 07:49 PM   #1
OldSkull75
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I have a 2001 XJ 4.0L with 86,000 miles on it. I have a case of Royal Purple full synth 5w20 sitting in my garage. Can I use that in the XJ instead of the conventional Quakerstate 10w30 I usually use?
Thanks!

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Unread 03-26-2013, 09:34 PM   #2
JeepN4KC
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No - do not use that.
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Unread 03-26-2013, 11:01 PM   #3
Charley3
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No way. Do not use 5-20.

Use 10-30 conventional, or 5-40 synthetic.

Though it might be to late for synthetic for you.

Conventional wisdom says you must switch to synthetic at 6 to 10 thousand miles ideally, or at least by 30 thousand miles. But that advice is for 10-30 synthetic.

I have found by personal experience with 2 Jeeps and 1 Buick that it's fine to switch to 5-40 synthetic any time from 6 thousand miles to 50 thousand miles, and even at 50 thousand miles no oil leaks or oil burning occur. Works great. I think 5-40 syn is ideal for engine that take 10-30 conventional.

However, I don't know if you can still switch to 5-40 at 80 thousand miles. You could try it. If it does not cause leaks, you're good. I think the ideal 5-40 is Mobil One because it has a better additive package for gas engines than Shell Rotella 5-40 IMO. Chevron 5-40 syn is another choice with a great additive package for gas engines.

But do not try 5-20. No way.
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Unread 03-27-2013, 12:02 AM   #4
mschi772
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5-20 sounds like a bad idea. Perhaps a 20 would work alright with an oil cooler...with a dual filter relocation...maybe?. Stick to 5-30, 10-30, or 5-40. Pretty sure 10-30 is factory spec, and I've never seen any legitimate reason to use anything else other than dropping it to 5-30 (or more) for really cold areas/months.

I switched my XJ to synthetic at 110k miles and don't have burning, leaks, nor any other problems. Whatever the "conventional wisdom" you speak of is, could it perhaps enlighten me as to what magically changes after 6 or 10 or 30 or 50 thousand miles that makes synthetic problematic? As conventional as it may be, I've never heard of such a thing except for WAY back when synthetic oil was still a new thing (and even then there were many bogus misconceptions)--technologies have changed a lot since then. You may say that you switched a vehicle to synthetic at a high mileage and got leaks or burning or whatever, but can you prove that it was the synthetic nature of the new oil that was the cause or was it just a coincidence/correlation? Jeeps are leaky creatures with engines (the 6 cyl 4.0 and 4 cyl 2.5) that have designs that can be traced all the way back to 1964. When leaks do occur, it takes some serious confidence to point at the oil and say with conviction that it was the cause instead of the myriad of other reasons these old engines decide to start marking their territories.
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Unread 03-27-2013, 04:06 AM   #5
OldSkull75
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Thanks, I will stick with the 10w 30. I have a 94 wrangler 4.0L that's ready for an oil change too. I'll use 10/30 in both.
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Unread 03-27-2013, 07:19 AM   #6
djb383
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Once u have a good understanding of lubrication, flow and pressure, along with a accurate (preferably mechanical) oil pressure gauge, u'll be able to separate the oil myths from the facts. 5W20 may be a little too light, but then again it may not.....kinda depends on the internals of the particular motor. That's where the accurate oil pressure gauge comes into play along with bearing clearances internally. The good Dr. doesn't blow smoke or perpetuate oil myths, just presents facts.

http://www.supramania.com/aehaas/
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Unread 03-27-2013, 10:19 AM   #7
mschi772
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Take that Dr Haas stuff with a little grain of salt though. He presents fundamentals well, but European sports car and supercar engines are VERY different from our 1960's designed straight six. We're driving tractors compared to what Haas prefers.
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Unread 03-27-2013, 11:16 AM   #8
djb383
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Dr. Haas sounds reasonably salty to me. Laboratory testing here and there, proving fact from fiction, studying/understanding viscosity over many years should carry a lot more salt than an opinion/myth, don't u agree? Very few folks grasp/comprehend the idea/concept that flow equals lubrication, not pressure.

aehaas

About the author:
Dr. Haas is a physician and surgeon. He graduated from the University of Florida with a degree in biochemistry with honors. He studied motor oils since high school where he did independent studies on this topic. He studied the properties of viscosity.

When he was a general surgery resident in Chapel Hill he studied the flow mechanics of human blood. Today he continues his research by discussion of oil products with chemists in the field and chemists from the oil manufacturers.

He has personal racing experience in Formula Super Vee. He is his own Lamborghini and Ferrari as well as Mercedes mechanic.
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Unread 03-27-2013, 12:41 PM   #9
mschi772
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Sounds like your love for the guy is already altering your objectivity. Haas is a plastic surgeon who is a hobbyist like any of us. Just because he can afford to blow his money on more expensive toys than us doesn't make him better. Blood and oil aren't the same thing. Yes, they're fluids, but blood is a transportation system in an organic system, and motor oil is an engine lubricant. For the same reason that you can't explain how something is good for transporting oxygen, carbon dioxide, hormones, etc by focusing solely on its flow, you can't just rely on flow to understand how oil might best perform its role.

Haas spends a lot of time looking at and testing oil in a "vacuum" and theorizing and not enough time doing more practical tests to better understand oil's role--its interactions with specific parts and effects in the bigger picture of engines. He does a good job of describing flow and other fundamental characteristics of oil as well as busting some myths, but he also draws some awkward conclusions. His 10 psi per 1000 rpm rule is unrealistic and unattainable for example--he achieves nothing by describing it as a "rule" even if it is theoretically legitimate (which I'm skeptical about).


Look, I'm not trying to completely tear the guy down. I'm glad you linked him because I had forgotten about him but encourage everyone to read at least a little of his stuff. Like I said, he presents lots of good info, but don't put him up on a pedestal as "the good Dr." and use him as the end-all-be-all one-and-only source. "He has personal racing experience in Formula Super Vee. He is his own Lamborghini and Ferrari as well as Mercedes mechanic." That's all fine and dandy, and lots of fundamentals remain constant, but don't pretend like those things don't have SIGNIFICANT differences from an American 4x4 engine originally designed in 1964.


P.S. Maybe I've got less "beef" with him and more of a beef with people who think that all his talk about flow is the answer to every oil-related question/problem. All Haas really says is that because pressure can be influenced by factors irrelevant to lubrication, pressure is a useless way of determining how well oil might be performing. Similarly, because flow is a better characteristic to gauge at least some aspects of an oil's ability to lubricate and that viscosity can be an impediment at different temperatures, viscosity is also a poor way of determining how well an oil will perform.

Wanna use 5-20? Try it, but watch it like a hawk with accurate testing equipment to make sure it's performing the way a 4.0 needs it to. I say that 5-20 might be ok with a cooler and/or dual remote filters because such a setup would likely result in reduced oil temperatures thus maintaining a thicker viscosity which might maintain proper pressure/flow. I am now, as a result of this discussion, toying with that very idea in my head because the idea of properly lubricating the 4.0 but with cooler oil is appealing given the XJ 4.0's tendency to have cooling difficulties. Perhaps I'll open a discussion thread on the topic...
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Unread 03-27-2013, 01:06 PM   #10
dagr8tim
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I run Rotella 15w40 in my XJ, I'm sure it likes the extra zink.
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Unread 03-27-2013, 01:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dagr8tim View Post
I run Rotella 15w40 in my XJ, I'm sure it likes the extra zink.
Look-up SAE document #2004-01-2986 “How Much ZDP is Enough” by Olree and McMillan. Being a professional journal article, it's not found just anywhere, but if you're serious, you can find it in journal databases or even find excerpts quoted by others online such as the excerpt at http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthr...nd-ZDP-content or http://forums.aaca.org/attachments/f...ogy-2-2007.pdf

And here is a well-worded reply to Bob Olree that I recall reading though it focuses more on how old high performance engines haven't been investigated as thoroughly as others by the studies and tests described by Olree, but that hardly applies to we Jeepers and our 4.0. Call the 4.0 a high performance engine, and I might have to ask you to seek help. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...51#Post1050251
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Unread 03-27-2013, 06:39 PM   #12
Kalali
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I don't think high performance and Jeep 4.0l even belong in the same sentence...
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Unread 03-27-2013, 07:43 PM   #13
1CleanTJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley3 View Post
No way. Do not use 5-20.

Use 10-30 conventional, or 5-40 synthetic.

Though it might be to late for synthetic for you.

Conventional wisdom says you must switch to synthetic at 6 to 10 thousand miles ideally, or at least by 30 thousand miles. But that advice is for 10-30 synthetic.

I have found by personal experience with 2 Jeeps and 1 Buick that it's fine to switch to 5-40 synthetic any time from 6 thousand miles to 50 thousand miles, and even at 50 thousand miles no oil leaks or oil burning occur. Works great. I think 5-40 syn is ideal for engine that take 10-30 conventional.

However, I don't know if you can still switch to 5-40 at 80 thousand miles. You could try it. If it does not cause leaks, you're good. I think the ideal 5-40 is Mobil One because it has a better additive package for gas engines than Shell Rotella 5-40 IMO. Chevron 5-40 syn is another choice with a great additive package for gas engines.

But do not try 5-20. No way.
you can switch to synthetic at any time... no mileage limit - if you happen to have some seepage from switching due to running cleaner , then you have bad seals that need attention, its not caused by the oil itself.
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Unread 03-30-2013, 01:49 PM   #14
Charley3
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The "conventional wisdom" I spoke of it was I was taught in auto shop 30 years ago, and have heard again many times from certified mechanics over the years, including recent years. Also been told same at mant auto parts stores too.
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