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Unread 10-10-2009, 11:32 AM   #1
Be-O-Be
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4.0 No crank, replaced CPS

OK, replaced the cps, no codes are being thrown by the jeep and also hooked it up to snap on computer and not getting any codes. But the check engine light is on and when turning the key getting nothing to to the starter.. Checked everything electrical and still getting full juice everywhere even the starter but no crank at all..


Anyone have any ideas on what it could be now?


For those that dont know i had issues before with it stalling on the road, not starting etc.. Sometimes it would crank and crank and crank and other times nothing hitting the starter at all..

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Unread 10-10-2009, 11:44 AM   #2
Bigskyxj
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Does it actually crank and not start or is it just not cranking?
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Unread 10-10-2009, 11:47 AM   #3
Be-O-Be
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When turning the key to the start position im getting nothing.. My buddy said he could hear the solenoids trying but no crank at all, not even an attempt..

When it did this before you could let the jeep sit for about an hour or 2 and then it would work or it would crank and crank with no fire.. But after replacing the CPS nothing at all, pulled the cables off the battery and let the jeep sit for a little bit and still nothing...

Im getting power everywhere, and not throwing any codes. But the check engine light is on. The volts showed a little low but even tried hooking it up to a charger just to eliminate the problem there.

Tried in P and in N if that makes any difference really
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Unread 10-10-2009, 12:13 PM   #4
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ok so just got off the phone with my buddy..

The jeep sat over night last night like normal and today he said it would start up every time over and he said he even let the jeep idle for about 45 min, shut it off and it started back up without any problems.

Said that he checked all wires and grounds and no problems found anywhere.. The check gauges light is no longer on either.

He didn't drive the vehicle around the block or anything and then try it because he didn't know the full problem i was having..

So my only option now is to go get it and get it back up here and see if we have any p roblems...

Is it possible replacing the CPS needed some time to reset or anything? just weird going from no crank to no problem.. Or am i lookin at a bigger problem here?
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Unread 10-10-2009, 01:31 PM   #5
koolaid5
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That sounds crazy.... Do you have a sensor going bad? Neutral? Did you ever try starting it in Neutral when you turned the key and got nothing? I have to do that with mine sometimes. If it doesn't start in Park I shifter her down into N and it fires right up
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Unread 10-10-2009, 01:38 PM   #6
tjwalker
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The crankshaft position sensor has NOTHING to do with the starting (cranking) circuit. They are completely separate. The stalling symptoms you originally had can be related to a crank sensor but not the engine cranking problem. An engine with only a bad crank sensor will turn over until the cows come home; it just won't start.

So the bottom line is that you need to look elsewhere besides the crank sensor circuit if you continue to have "no crank" symptoms. (ie; the engine won't turn over)

As already mentioned, try starting with the shift lever in neutral or try cranking while "wiggling" the shift lever. If either of these strategies work, you have a faulty neutral safety switch.

If you have full battery voltage directly at the starter itself with the key in the ON position, the starter itself could be suspect. And they can be intermittent, just like anything else mechanical.

I always "freshen" all grounds (disassemble, clean, reassemble, not just put a meter on them to test them) on intermittent electrical problems as grounds are responsible for lots of gremlin type failures.
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Unread 10-10-2009, 01:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwalker View Post
As already mentioned, try starting with the shift lever in neutral or try cranking while "wiggling" the shift lever. If either of these strategies work, you have a faulty neutral safety switch.

I always "freshen" all grounds (disassemble, clean, reassemble, not just put a meter on them to test them) on intermittent electrical problems as grounds are responsible for lots of gremlin type failures.
Speaking of which....I need to look up how to replace that sensor. Thanks for reminding me.

Hey, on the driver's side under the hood there are 3 grounds on the side all running to one plastic piece and then bolted to the side. I felt this the other day and it was HOT...that's not a good sign, right Can I just scrap that white plastic piece and bolt those three grounds straight to the frame? I don't get why they did it the way they did, but they must have had a reason, right?
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Unread 10-10-2009, 03:39 PM   #8
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No, a hot electrical automotive connection isn't generally a good thing! I'd be suspect of this.

I'm not sure of how things are wired on a 92 XJ, but are you sure that the white piece you're referring to isn't your "ballast resistor"? Where do the wires come from that lead to it?

If memory serves me correctly, ballast resistors were kind of cream or off while in color, but should be made of ceramic, not plastic. I think you have one on your 92. The only reason for them is to reduce noise on the fuel pump circuit. They can be jumpered which effectively eliminates that resistor if you so desire.
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Unread 10-10-2009, 04:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwalker View Post
No, a hot electrical automotive connection isn't generally a good thing! I'd be suspect of this.

I'm not sure of how things are wired on a 92 XJ, but are you sure that the white piece you're referring to isn't your "ballast resistor"? Where do the wires come from that lead to it?

If memory serves me correctly, ballast resistors were kind of cream or off while in color, but should be made of ceramic, not plastic. I think you have one on your 92. The only reason for them is to reduce noise on the fuel pump circuit. They can be jumpered which effectively eliminates that resistor if you so desire.
I have no clue what a ballast resistor is. I'll have to check into that. It very well could be ceramic as well. I only looked at it real quick the other day while doing something else my hand just happend to rest on it and I felt that it was hot. My fuel pump is DEFINITELY not quite as is though I could care less if it was either. I'll check into it more. Thanks a lot and sorry for the hi-jack OP
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Unread 10-10-2009, 04:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwalker View Post
The crankshaft position sensor has NOTHING to do with the starting (cranking) circuit. They are completely separate. The stalling symptoms you originally had can be related to a crank sensor but not the engine cranking problem. An engine with only a bad crank sensor will turn over until the cows come home; it just won't start.

So the bottom line is that you need to look elsewhere besides the crank sensor circuit if you continue to have "no crank" symptoms. (ie; the engine won't turn over)

As already mentioned, try starting with the shift lever in neutral or try cranking while "wiggling" the shift lever. If either of these strategies work, you have a faulty neutral safety switch.
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Originally Posted by Be-O-Be View Post

Tried in P and in N if that makes any difference really
Please read before you make comments...

EDIT: The not starting is not why i leaned to the CPS, it was the stalling etc. My point now has nothing to do with the CPS as it now has a brand new CPS, so OBVIOUSLY the not starting has nothing to do with the CPS. The purpose of this thread is to eliminate and find a result as to WHY the not starting is happening. I never said anywhere that i thought the CPS was the reason why it is not firing.

Like i said before it would stall going down the highway, stall at stop lights etc so didn't matter whether you were moving or not. But when it would stall while driving it would either Crank and crank and crank with no fire or i would get NOTHING to the starter as it is doing right now.. So i think replacing the CPS has eliminated the stalling and the constant cranking with negative fire but i have to find out why im not getting anything to the starter but getting full voltage to the starter.. like i said when she does crank over she fires right up on first try, its getting the starter to actually crank now that is the issue..

So just to clear up one more time, I KNOW IT IS NOT THE CPS, as stated in the first post i have replaced the CPS,


Ok so as i stated in my second post i did try starting the vehicle in both park and neutral with no results..

Now that i have replaced the CPS their are no codes being thrown as before i was getting 2 codes and all the problems and symptoms were exactly the ones mentioned on a faulty sensor..

I went and picked up the jeep, started right up with no problems and ran just fine, drove the jeep back home which was about a 30-45 min drive and not 1 problem, never died, never sputtered or anything..

As soon as i pulled up to my house i shut it off, waited about 2 min and tried to start it again and no crank.. All gauges are fine but the check gauges light comes on.. As i said before getting full power to the starter and everything, and when it does work it doesn't crank and crank she fires on the first try. Its just like i said it doesn't get any crank.. Before it would either crank and crank and crank or get nothing to the starter.

So it seems as thought all the (CPS) related issues have gone away but now its just the starting back up cause once shes turned on she does just fine... I can try and pull the starter and have it tested but i dunno... Just odd that the computer and teh Snap On diagnostic computer would find no errors, you would think if starter was bad or something the computers would show no crank to the starter.,.

Think maybe something in the ignition itself???
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Last edited by Be-O-Be; 10-10-2009 at 04:45 PM..
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Unread 10-10-2009, 06:42 PM   #11
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I'm telling you....mine is doing the exact same thing. I can get in and it will start right up in Park like 50 times, but then all of a sudden it won't. Then I put it in Neutral and try once or twice. If I still get nothing I put it back in park and try again. Then I just go back and forth until it finally cooperates. It has to be the Neutral safety switch.
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Unread 10-10-2009, 08:18 PM   #12
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Poor electrical connections and a starter on the way out can give you that intermittent no crank. I would go in this order. Take of the battery cables and clean them up. Take off the cable at the starter and clean up that connetion. Take out the starter and bench test it. I have all of these issues at one time or other, wj and others.
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Unread 10-10-2009, 09:00 PM   #13
Be-O-Be
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ya im going to see about pulling the starter and getting it tested.. as for cleaning everything etc i have done that.. i guess ill see what happens after checking the starter...

Also the noise im getting when it wont start isn't the solenoid kicking in its the relay for the starter that is making the clicking noise. so ya everything seems to be checking out just fine other then the starter itself not kicking over..

Koolaid, i have tried the neutral and park and have done the moving it between both even a few times and then trying it and getting nothing still.. Its the reason that i leaned to the CPS since it was doing it just fine after it sat for a little bit, figured that had something to do with the thermal failure on the CPS itself.

Great responses, other then starter any other ideas as to what it may be? ill keep you informed on the starter situation
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Unread 10-10-2009, 09:14 PM   #14
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right on.... I'll let you know if I come across anything else. I just read everything I can on here and try to soak up the fix actions to common problems. Then I try to share my very limited knowledge

good luck man...
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Unread 10-13-2009, 01:17 PM   #15
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so here is something i noticed last night. When i open the drivers door sometimes the interior lights do not come on, i can shut the door and wait a sec and open it again and the lights come on.. The battery has a perfect charge so now im starting to think something electrical wiring is the problem.. Im going to check the Pos and Neg cords to the battery and see if they have a short of if the ground has a problem or something and go from there.. I hate electrical crap
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