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Unread 06-02-2011, 12:50 AM   #1
mcinerneyc2
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2001 Cheerokee Overheat..Stumped

History:
I recently picked up a 2001 jeep Cherokee Sport that the previous owner had overheated. Because she drove it for a long duration with little or no water in it, she cracked the head, smoked the cam, cam bearings, and the number 2 cylinder head rings and it no longer had oil pressure...

Upon purchasing the car which only had 58 thousand on the clock, I put on a new head (old one was cracked), a new intake manifold, new engine bearings, new radiator, new water pump, and new thermostats. After which the oil pressure issue was not resolved, so I pulled the motor and sent it off to a machine shop where they took the mess apart and put in a new cam, new cam bearings, new rings (why not we were there), and checked the cylinder walls.

In the mean time, I put in new brakes all around, new shocks, new steering stabilizer, new starter and rebuilt the transfer case...essentially looking at new ride.

Problem:
Every now and then after a long drive the car over heat little bit and run rough due to heat soak, and as such I put on the little covers over the injectors and all was well, until...One day toward the beginning of spring (not hot outside), I started the car 10 minutes after driving it for an hour and the engine started ticking. As I let it idle for a moment, and rev'd it a bit to see if it was the belts. It didn't go way, and ultimately in the back of my mind I was thinking of a bum rod or lifter, I drove for a 10 minutes and the car started miss firing really badly and the check engine eventually came on...I parked it immediately, towed it, cleared the codes, and after trying three different brand new distributors, I moved on and replaced the cam shaft position sensor and all seemed to be well...(ish).

I start to notice that the car idles a little rough and occasionally it starts rough and I have to start it a few times while it works out its misfires, and then it starts ticking on start up more and more...and in a moment extreme frustration I found that if I give it it a healthy amount of gas at idle (a couple times up to 3,000) the ticking will go away...

As it has gotten warmer out, I will drive the car park it, get back in it 10 mins later start it up and the temp will be at 260!!! and cools down with in a minute or so if I give it some gas to pump some water thru. During this observation period I have been checking the coolant reserve to keep an eye on things and I always seem to be empty in the reserve, however have found no leaks in any thing, and haven't seen any white smoke out the exhaust or coolant in the oil.....I should also note that both of my fans are working fine.

Finally today nail in the stumped coffin, I was in traffic in the peak heat of the day (it was nasty out there today) with the A.C. running just as the thought entered my mind, "I wonder if the car will overheat while running" which it has never done before, the temp jumps from 210 right up to 260 (or 230 whatever the max is), and as such I pulled it over immediately. I let it sit for a bit tried to restart it, and it would barely start and when it did it was rough like I had cracked a head and anti freeze was flooding the cylinder walls...further more after letting it sit a bit longer I started it the temp was still at 260 then then it rapidly dropped to 210 it was totally fine, and I drove it for an hour with NO AC and it ran around 210, from which point I let it sit for an hour and then I drove it for a half hour with AC on at which point it climbed to about 220 while driving.

I parked it for 10 minutes, restarted it, and it felt and sounded like it was running on 3 cylinders or they were filled with coolant, and the engine backfired twice. I shut it off...started it again, and it was the miss firing was less harsh, and I gave it some gas, and it corrected itself...

Seriously, what am I missing here??? I have tired to give you as much information as possible, as I have replaced so much, and have tried to troubleshoot everything to a T....I was thinking perhaps its a bad head gasket or defective head? I just would have assumed with the coolant mysteriously disappearing that I would have seen it pouring out the exhaust, and at a constant...

Thank you so very much for reading this whole thing...I am ready to drive this thing to a dealer lot and make their problem...I never thought I could give up on one of my jeeps.

I should also note, that I had 2 different 95 Wranglers prior to this Jeep, and am very familiar with the power train, its optimal and usual operating behavior as well as quarks.

thanks,
Chris

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Unread 06-02-2011, 04:59 AM   #2
tjwalker
It's the crank sensor!
 
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What head did you put on it when you replaced it? Was it another 0331 head? If so, what year? Or was it a re-designed aftermarket cylinder head? Very important to know this.

What you are describing sounds like it could very possibly be another cracked head.

The #1 symptom of a cracked 0331 cylinder head is "unexplained coolant loss".

Also have to ask. You mention you tried "three different brands of distributors". A 2001 has no distributor, so this is a bit confusing.
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Unread 06-02-2011, 05:29 AM   #3
Kevin108
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It could be that there are two issues - the first being a bad thermostat.

The computers on the 00-01s with coil rails can make the engine run on a reduced number of cylinders, possibly causing your second issue. After a certain number of misfires, the computer shuts down ignition to the cylinder.

If you indeed have an 01 with the distributorless ignition system, you should reindex your camshaft position sensor. It seems like I blame every problem on this, but it caused a ton of issues for which codes and standard diagnosis didn't help and made my XJ undriveable for several months.
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Unread 06-02-2011, 03:22 PM   #4
mcinerneyc2
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Sorry I wrote that after a very long day....

I replaced the thermostat twice, and I replaced the coil 3 times..

The head was brand new, I am gonna have to look up...but I believe it was a stock replacement...I heard there was some issue for a few years with bad metal from the factory causing some heads to crack....

Either way thank you for your suggestions, it is great to know help it out there!!!

I think I am going to take the head off and see what's doin' in there...I'll keep you posted!
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Unread 06-02-2011, 05:27 PM   #5
tjwalker
It's the crank sensor!
 
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If you haven't already come across this post, it is "required reading" for anyone with an 00-01 XJ.

It delves into the "darkness" (casting defect) of the 0331 head.

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums...d.php?t=391831

Good luck and post back what you find.
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Unread 06-02-2011, 09:55 PM   #6
Kevin108
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Here's what we did to find my crack: First we removed the valve cover then cleaned the area between the rockers for the 3rd and 4th cylinders. We then used a radiator pressure tester to pump up the system. From there, we could clearly see the hairline crack weeping.

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Unread 06-03-2011, 06:15 AM   #7
tjwalker
It's the crank sensor!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin108 View Post
Here's what we did to find my crack: First we removed the valve cover then cleaned the area between the rockers for the 3rd and 4th cylinders. We then used a radiator pressure tester to pump up the system. From there, we could clearly see the hairline crack weeping.
The technique Kevin describes is an excellent one. A very high percentage of cracked 0331 heads can be sleuthed this way.
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Unread 06-03-2011, 09:35 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin108 View Post
It could be that there are two issues - the first being a bad thermostat.

The computers on the 00-01s with coil rails can make the engine run on a reduced number of cylinders, possibly causing your second issue. After a certain number of misfires, the computer shuts down ignition to the cylinder.
Its actually worse than that... if it detects a misfire on one cylinder for a long time, it shuts down that cylinder AND the one that its paired with on the coil rail. So you lose at least two cylinders. A shutdown/restart will clear that error unless the misfire comes back. The same thing can also be triggered by a mis-phased cam sensor.
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Unread 06-20-2011, 03:27 PM   #9
mcinerneyc2
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Thank you all very much this is helping....I am still trying to deal with the time to take it apart...
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Unread 06-20-2011, 03:48 PM   #10
lowicz96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwalker View Post
The technique Kevin describes is an excellent one. A very high percentage of cracked 0331 heads can be sleuthed this way.
I dont think alot of 0331 heads actually crack, we just hear about them more on the boards because thats where people come with problems. My gf's 2000 has 208K and just needed a head gasket. I told her its getting a sbc if she blows the motor
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Unread 07-12-2011, 12:01 PM   #11
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some experience i have had with 00-01 xj, they will run hot. The heads will crack between 3 and 4 like mentioned earlier result of unexplained coolant loss. Easy way to check cooling system is pressure tester. pump it up to 15-17psi cold, shouldnt lose any pressure in 15mins.

Rough idle due to the high temp, 250 either let it cool down 30 mins or longer or if you can keep it running till temp drops back to 210, then shut off and turn back on to reset cpu from shutting down cyl due to misfires. cam sensors have been known to cause these problems also.

Does your electric fan work properly, comes on at 218 degrees, or when ac is on. Is the fan shroud around clutch fan still intact, have seen several break, which causes clutch fan effency to drop. Can buy lower temp thermo stat, 160, you will have no prob heating in winter. or even install new elec fan inplace of clutch fan.
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Unread 07-25-2011, 11:07 AM   #12
mcinerneyc2
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So with out time, I gave the car to a buddy of mine who is a mechanic...he got the valve cover off and we got the head off...I have not seen any weeping but the head is all gummed up...there is sludge all over this head...and it seems a little bit crazy for a motor that has had light driving and only 8,000 miles on it...

what do you guys think...

its a 0331 head...but was new..I am not sure which foundry it came from

I have pictures I am just not sure how to attach them in this forum
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Unread 07-27-2011, 12:22 PM   #13
Penguinishblue
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""So with out time, I gave the car to a buddy of mine who is a mechanic...he got the valve cover off and we got the head off...I have not seen any weeping but the head is all gummed up...there is sludge all over this head...and it seems a little bit crazy for a motor that has had light driving and only 8,000 miles on it...

what do you guys think...

its a 0331 head...but was new..I am not sure which foundry it came from

I have pictures I am just not sure how to attach them in this forum ""

-Have the head pressure checked, and deck for warpage at local machine shop. The shops can usually clean, check, and give you a good idea of the condition of your head for under 100$. The cooling system is a closed pretty simple system so if you know your heads good, then the problem should be easy to locate. Pressure test cold for leaks, reset and leave the pressure tester on while running to check for compression loss into cooling system, should never go over 17-20psi.
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Unread 07-27-2011, 07:07 PM   #14
mcinerneyc2
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The machine shop called...the head is Cracked...Honestly...So happy to have the peace of mind...pretty ridiculous that it happened in only 8,000 miles....Time for a TUPTY!
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Unread 08-07-2011, 04:18 PM   #15
mcinerneyc2
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Update, The machine shop got me a new head...but it is not OEM, and has no casting numbers, the only markings on the head are DD, is this an Albama Head Mark?
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