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Unread 02-02-2010, 06:30 PM   #31
axehead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vohk View Post
Bit of a misleading statement. Two main reasons.

One, to get a surgery or treatment done sooner. Say your hip needs replacing, but it's not 'urgent' so the earliest you can be booked in is in 4 months. If you have a few grand burning a hole in your pocket you could possibly arrange to have the surgery done much sooner in the US. I say possibly; it isn't a given unless you feel like paying a large premium. It also really depends on the specific treatment needed.

Two, you have a rare/complex/difficult to treat condition. The Canadian healthcare system will certainly treat you, and we do have access to nearly any treatment you can think of. That being said, maybe most doctors are clueless about said condition and a very good one happens to live in the US (or France, Germany, etc). Or maybe there's an experimental treatment being tested at Hopkins. Or, heck, maybe you still have that burning hole in your pocket and want someone from the Mayo clinic to do the job. More than a few Canadians go to Europe for the same thing.

This is more a factor of the US having ~300mil people to Canada's ~30mil. Bigger country, more research hospitals and doctors. Assuming the US went to single payer system or the like, there would still be plenty of cutting edge research centers around to do the ground breaking work.

Not all that many Canadians do head south to see a doctor, and it's virtually unheard of for routine issues.


i shared the ^ above statement with someone on facebook & he replied with this

I don't care what he says, I know a person that lives in Canada. She happens to be kinfolk. She waited 11 months to have a lump checked that was found on her by her Gyno. If you want to wait, and you want your wife, mom, or anybody else to wait that long, move to O' Canada. I bet this dude above had that choice as well.


any responses?

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Unread 02-02-2010, 06:56 PM   #32
Scooter_Trash
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That sounds like one of those stories where the entire picture isn't being painted. For example, even in the States I know people who have been told by their doctor that they need to have a certain lump checked out. That person then wait's for months before having it evaluated. Either they didn't want to face what could possible be cancer and were in denial, or they were just lazy. Trust me, there are people out there that don't take initiative and will wait and wait thinking that it's the doctor responsibility to make the appointment for them. Perhaps this person's "kinfolk" was just too lazy to make the appointment and was too scared of what the appointment would reveal and put it off. Just a thought and maybe a piece of the puzzle we will never see.
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Unread 02-02-2010, 11:23 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawzz View Post
Some drugs and treatments are approved in the US and not here yet.
Good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by axehead View Post
i shared the ^ above statement with someone on facebook & he replied with this

I don't care what he says, I know a person that lives in Canada. She happens to be kinfolk. She waited 11 months to have a lump checked that was found on her by her Gyno. If you want to wait, and you want your wife, mom, or anybody else to wait that long, move to O' Canada. I bet this dude above had that choice as well.

any responses?
Well, no system is perfect, least of all Canada's. There will always be a few people slipping through the cracks. We do certainly have a problem with wait times, but it is improving.

That being said, I'm really curious as to what caused that kind of delay to get a lump examined. Usually that gets a reasonably high priority when discovered, and I can't think of any diagnostic with that kind of backlog . There arn't even many elective surgeries with a wait that long.
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Unread 02-03-2010, 09:33 AM   #34
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another reply from someone who opposes it below


I was married to a Canadian and can tell you first hand about the mess of med care up there. it is much worse if you don't live in or very near to Toronto or one of the big cities.

let's say you live in some place like Thunder Bay Ontario, and your doc finds an abnormality. Doc has to set the appt with the specialist (normal for her too in some cases), but your appt time could literally be MONTHS out. Watched it first hand with my now ex mother in law.

Once you see said specialist, and they determine that there is something wrong, and you need surgery....here comes another wait of say MONTHS. ... See More

It isn't that med care in Canada is bad, because it isn't. The issue is the wait time to get in to see someone for something specific ie. cancer, coronary issues, major female issues, etc. If you can survive the wait time and make it to your appt you get treated. If you don't make it to the appt (dead, incapacitated, etc.) you are SOL.

Do we really want that in this country?

Up there not nearly as many kids dream of going into med care to work in Canada. Regs, set pay rates, the huge amount of provincial travel involved with a specialty, etc contribute to a system of SOCIALIZED medicine that doesn't work well for EVERYONE.

At least here, even without insurance, the hospitals can't turn you away. They may rack you up a hefty bill, but they can't turn you away.
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Unread 02-03-2010, 11:45 PM   #35
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First off, you cannot be turned away from a hospital in Canada. Wait times for specialists and surgeries have nothing to do with be turned away. It's called a line up.

Complaining about poorer service outside of major centres is a pretty silly arguement as well. We have more land than the US and 1/10 of the population. You think we might be stretched a little more thin? How many specialists do you find in a rural town in the US? That has nothing to do with the system itself.

That being said, I'll be the first to admit we have an issue with wait times. My mother went through a few years of severe kidney trouble and it was hard to get a booking with the specialist within a month. Wasn't fun. I'll agree that wait times are less of a problem in the US, but anyone who says they arn't an issue hasn't done their research. One reason wait times look better in the US is because they don't consider all of the people who have no access to advanced care. If you can't pay, you never get an appointment to wait for.

I have no idea what he's getting at with less kids dreaming of a career in healthcare. That's just bull.

So many of the arguements used against socialized healthcare are so utterly misinformed. I'm not saying it's perfect or the only way to go, but people really need to learn more about it before they just dismiss it. They look at the problems with Canadian healthcare and just assume they all came about because we have a public system; they leave no allowance for any other factors (geography, population, culture, economy, how each province implemented policy, etc).

Besides that, Canada isn't the only socialized system. Cuba, Austrailia, the UK, Finland, Israel are all other countries that have universal healthcare and most of them do it somewhat differently. It's not like our system is the only option.

edit: Interesting statistic: in Canada the median wait time for a non-urgent specialist visit or diagnostic (MRI, etc) is 4 and 2 weeks respectively, with between 80-90% of patients waiting less than 3 months depending on the specific need. There is no universal reporting of wait times in the US, but estimates range from around 2-3 weeks on average for a non-urgent specialist vist, without taking into account those unable to get that kind of care at all.
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Unread 02-04-2010, 12:06 AM   #36
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thx vohk, you are a BIG help : )


how far are you from a large city & what's the cities name?
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Unread 02-04-2010, 10:32 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axehead View Post
another reply from someone who opposes it below


At least here, even without insurance, the hospitals can't turn you away. They may rack you up a hefty bill, but they can't turn you away.
This statement alone shows this person is misinformed and is getting his information from other misinformed people. They then spread this misinformation as gospel and other's take it as fact. Viscious cycle.
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Unread 02-04-2010, 10:46 AM   #38
axehead
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This statement alone shows this person is misinformed and is getting his information from other misinformed people. They then spread this misinformation as gospel and other's take it as fact. Viscious cycle.

i'm a lefty in a heavy republican/conservative area.

how are things in your area?
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Unread 02-04-2010, 11:48 AM   #39
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Well, I'm registered as a Democrat only so I can vote in the Primaries. But I will vote for whoever I feel is the better person or seems to have my interests. I've voted Republican before and won't hesitate to do it again if that person is the better choice. With that said, my county is an island of blue surrounded by an entirely red state.

I work in the health care industry and have for the past 18 years. I've also been a proponent for some type of insurance reform since 1988 when I almost became a victim of it.
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Unread 02-04-2010, 06:29 PM   #40
axehead
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anymore comments?
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Unread 02-04-2010, 11:16 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by axehead View Post
thx vohk, you are a BIG help : )


how far are you from a large city & what's the cities name?
Glad to help. I live in Abbotsford, British Columbia. Vancouver is the nearest major center. It's about an hour away.
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Unread 02-05-2010, 09:17 PM   #42
axehead
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any comments to kick off the weekend?
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Unread 02-08-2010, 09:37 AM   #43
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any comments to kick the week off?
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Unread 02-08-2010, 10:00 AM   #44
axehead
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N.L. Premier Williams set to have heart surgery in U.S.



some here are saying if Canada's system is so great why did this ^ happen?
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Unread 02-09-2010, 10:38 AM   #45
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"He has gone to a renowned expert in the procedure that he needs to have done,"

I'd say that pretty much covers it. See above.

"It was never an option offered to him to have this procedure done in this province,"

No, that does not mean our poor socialized system can't afford proper care, it mosty likely means that he has some very rare condition that just isn't properly treated in most hospitals (Canada or US). Without knowing exactly what his condition is, what more is there to say?
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