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Unread 12-03-2012, 09:56 PM   #76
Dr. Marneaus
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Aite, here are the results of todays....stuff. You all probably saw that the master cylinder was shot on my trailer brakes.



good news was that the fitting was clean, and dripping CLEAN brake fluid.


Well, I searched and searched and eventually somebody on another forum mentioned that the MC looked like an early ford unit....well, i looked it up and it appeared very similar, so i went out and bought one. The master cylinder is an exact match. So, for future reference, this IS an early ford master cylinder.

The replacement unit cost me $17.99 at O'reilly


So, before I left work today (the camper is stored where I work, with our work trucks and whatnot) I went over and got adventurous. I pulled apart the whole actuator and brought the working bits home with me.


So, my initial observations were that while old and scudgy, everything appeared functional.

The damper/shock is nice and firm in both directions, smooth too. The bushings are nasty and old, but they are solid with no movement.

the spring is a spring, so its fine. not quite as yellow as it was 30 years ago though.

the bearings for the actuator are kind of messed up, but present. The "sides" of the top bearing are missing and its broken a bit, but should still function. I cant seem to find replacements, so if anybody knows a source for something similar, let me know please.

The actuator, pins, and emergency brake pawl ratchet thing are all fine.

Everything was together and functional, but the whole unit was full of dirt, dust, spider webs, and wasp nests. In my mind I like to imagine the wasps and spiders fighting for the territory, but there was no evidence of who the victor was.

I brought it home and laid it out, this may be helpful if you've never seen the inside of one of these things.

P.S. I've done my fair share of brakes on cars/trucks, but have never touched a trailer brake system before. So, if i'm wrong, correct me. I'm just going by what i assume to be correct, because it appears that if you have even a relatively basic understanding of 'how things work' this system should be incredibly simple to understand.

This was the first time i have ever seen something like this, and i had it apart and back together within a few minutes.

So, here we have everything laid out (except for the actual sleeve that everything goes inside) in the correct order, as assembled:


All that I would have to do is slip everything back into the sleeve of the actuator at this point (it goes in from both sides though)

Lets explode that view


This is everything in the right order, just separated a bit.

Lets explode it even further:


Again, still in order, this is how everything would go together, but broken 100% apart. still super simple.

I cleaned everything very well, and when it gets reassembled tomorrow or wednesday, i'll give everything a nice coating of white lithium grease as it goes back together. I may craft some sort of cover for this actuator for when it's in storage, or perhaps on the vehicle, to minimize the amount of dust and debris that gets caught up in it.

so at this point i have pretty much everything needed to get it back together, but i need a 90* fitting for the master cylinder. looks to go from 7/16 24 to 3/8 24, but i'll have to verify.

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The Beast Build Thread: Marns '73 Wagoneer Thread ----- The Camper Build Thread: Marns 1980 Jayco JayFinch6 Build Thread

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Unread 12-04-2012, 02:33 AM   #77
Grewe02
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So it uses the spring to squeeze the brakes? That's a pretty genius little system there. Way cheaper than using an electronic trailer brake.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 06:09 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Dr. Marneaus View Post
the bearings for the actuator are kind of messed up, but present. The "sides" of the top bearing are missing and its broken a bit, but should still function. I cant seem to find replacements, so if anybody knows a source for something similar, let me know please
Timken has a application on their website where you can search for bearings by dimension:

http://www.timken.com/EN-US/Knowledg...artNumber.aspx
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Unread 12-04-2012, 12:22 PM   #79
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So it uses the spring to squeeze the brakes? That's a pretty genius little system there. Way cheaper than using an electronic trailer brake.
No, the spring actually keeps it from compressing, essentially. it slows down the compression of the master cylinder and controls it. otherwise if you hit the brakes the trailer would instantly move forward and apply the FULL braking force.

Surge brakes are very simple.

As you slow down your tow vehicle, the weight of the trailer pushes forward, obviously, and moves forward against the spring and the shock in there. The trailer pushing forward compresses everything and actuates the master cylinder, thus slowing down the brakes.

Yes, its very simple, it's fairly common on older stuff at least, but, they aren't very effective. electric brakes are much more effective.

I dunno, some brakes are better than no brakes i figure? rather than spending hundreds of dollars to convert or update, i figure if i can get these working for the total of $25 i have invested in them, i'll be happy.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 12:23 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by XJAbuzer View Post
Timken has a application on their website where you can search for bearings by dimension:

http://www.timken.com/EN-US/Knowledg...artNumber.aspx
it's not that kind of bearing.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 01:23 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Marneaus View Post
No, the spring actually keeps it from compressing, essentially. it slows down the compression of the master cylinder and controls it. otherwise if you hit the brakes the trailer would instantly move forward and apply the FULL braking force.

Surge brakes are very simple.

As you slow down your tow vehicle, the weight of the trailer pushes forward, obviously, and moves forward against the spring and the shock in there. The trailer pushing forward compresses everything and actuates the master cylinder, thus slowing down the brakes.

Yes, its very simple, it's fairly common on older stuff at least, but, they aren't very effective. electric brakes are much more effective.

I dunno, some brakes are better than no brakes i figure? rather than spending hundreds of dollars to convert or update, i figure if i can get these working for the total of $25 i have invested in them, i'll be happy.
Yeah that's pretty much what I pictured in my head, I was just too lazy to type it all out

On that small little trailer you probably don't need any brakes, but yes, I do agree some brakes are better than no brakes.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 02:46 PM   #82
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the emergency break-away brake adds a little piece of mind as well.
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Unread 12-05-2012, 11:48 AM   #83
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Mo' Info!!!!

I got it all lubricated with white grease and put it back together, everything seems good!

Mocked up the MC to make sure it fit.



Then went out to Napa and got me a 90* fitting, then tested it all again to make sure everything was good to go.



I'll probably bleed them and hook everything up tomorrow after work.
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Unread 12-05-2012, 12:17 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Dr. Marneaus View Post

I'll probably bleed them and hook everything up tomorrow after work.
How do you bleed a system like that? Like a vehicle and have somebody push the tongue in repeatedly then hold it while you open the bleeders?
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Unread 12-05-2012, 02:03 PM   #85
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How do you bleed a system like that? Like a vehicle and have somebody push the tongue in repeatedly then hold it while you open the bleeders?


Or i could remove the tongue and use a dowel to depress the master cylinder and bleed it...

ooorrrrrr

just actuate it by hand.


oooooor gravity.
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Unread 12-05-2012, 02:15 PM   #86
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Or i could remove the tongue and use a dowel to depress the master cylinder and bleed it...

ooorrrrrr

just actuate it by hand.


oooooor gravity.
That is what I figured.
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Unread 12-05-2012, 02:43 PM   #87
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That is what I figured.
yeah i'm not really sure what method i'll use yet haha.
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Unread 12-05-2012, 03:14 PM   #88
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yeah i'm not really sure what method i'll use yet haha.
All of them seem like a real PITA.
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Unread 12-05-2012, 05:20 PM   #89
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meh, pumping it by hand is fine if i'm using a 1 man bleeder, or i can get a vacuum bleeder.

gravity just requires time.
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Unread 12-06-2012, 10:19 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Marneaus

...

Yes, its very simple, it's fairly common on older stuff at least, but, they aren't very effective. electric brakes are much more effective.

...
Just FYI - surge brakes are still quite common on boat trailers and they've improved a lot over the years. My boat and trailer combined are over 7000 lbs. and the surge brakes work very well, even compared to the electric brakes on my cargo trailer.

That may be another place you could look for replacement parts?

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