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Unread 01-09-2014, 09:10 AM   #16
Ross
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Schitzangiggles: We used to teach our children to fight evil, now we teach them that fighting is evil.

2001 TJ, 33 trxus MTs , W, locked, belly up, some armor.

"If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time." Zig Ziglar
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Unread 01-09-2014, 09:11 AM   #17
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Schitzangiggles: We used to teach our children to fight evil, now we teach them that fighting is evil.

2001 TJ, 33 trxus MTs , W, locked, belly up, some armor.

"If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time." Zig Ziglar
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Unread 01-09-2014, 09:11 AM   #18
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Schitzangiggles: We used to teach our children to fight evil, now we teach them that fighting is evil.

2001 TJ, 33 trxus MTs , W, locked, belly up, some armor.

"If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time." Zig Ziglar
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Unread 01-09-2014, 09:13 AM   #19
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Schitzangiggles: We used to teach our children to fight evil, now we teach them that fighting is evil.

2001 TJ, 33 trxus MTs , W, locked, belly up, some armor.

"If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time." Zig Ziglar
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Unread 01-09-2014, 09:13 AM   #20
Ross
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Schitzangiggles: We used to teach our children to fight evil, now we teach them that fighting is evil.

2001 TJ, 33 trxus MTs , W, locked, belly up, some armor.

"If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time." Zig Ziglar
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Unread 01-09-2014, 09:17 AM   #21
Ross
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Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
We had to get a waiver for some stream crossings we supervised. Required by the event promoter.

For my part, when I see a person in trouble, I get out and look and if I can safely help I do so. No waiver, no "you hook up your car" no $tip. Just pull em out and go.

I will say this, that as much experience as I have had in recovery, it mostly comes down to weight of the rigs. My K2500 Burb can pull a full sized car or an F150 up out of a ditch with ease, but if I tried it in my Rubicon, it would be a disaster.

Here's the old hoss right here:

No note, contract, or whatever can release you of your liability. If you are negligent you are negligent regardless of what you have written or signed. You cannot release yourself of negligence and no contract is above the law. If this were the case our courts would be allot less busy then they are. Even if you arenít negligent and you damage some bodies else vehicles they can still try to go after you. This is why tow services have special equipment and carry specific insurance for. It isnít always as simple as attaching a strap or cable.

I will only recover friends or family I trust (that have legit recovery points) other than that I will make a phone call for you, I won't even let you borrow my phone.

Last year I had a person flag me down and expected me to winch them out of the ditch. It was a larger 4 door crown vic or whatever our state troopers drive. As I was arguing with the drive telling them I would not pull them out a state trooper pulled up. The state trooperís car had been outfitted with a recovery point because of issue with that type of rear frame assembly that the state had encountered in the past recovering their own vehicles. After that I left.
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Schitzangiggles: We used to teach our children to fight evil, now we teach them that fighting is evil.

2001 TJ, 33 trxus MTs , W, locked, belly up, some armor.

"If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time." Zig Ziglar
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Unread 01-09-2014, 10:04 AM   #22
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I would highly reccomend you leave the legal CR^P to the lawyers... that being said try to avoid using tow staps or snatch straps with hooks on them... they to become a great way to smash windows and someones head... they was a guy how was killed with one not to long ago down here in S FL... when the hook let go and came thru the back window of his truck and struck him in da head... common sense is your friend... stupitiy is not
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Unread 01-09-2014, 10:13 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by j_bydesign View Post
I would highly reccomend you leave the legal CR^P to the lawyers... that being said try to avoid using tow staps or snatch straps with hooks on them... they to become a great way to smash windows and someones head... they was a guy how was killed with one not to long ago down here in S FL... when the hook let go and came thru the back window of his truck and struck him in da head... common sense is your friend... stupitiy is not
No, limit your actions and you possibility of problems so you never need a lawyer. Unfortunately when you extend a helping hand there are those out there that will return the favor in a not so nice manner.

Every action has consequences, not all are bad but why take the chance.
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Schitzangiggles: We used to teach our children to fight evil, now we teach them that fighting is evil.

2001 TJ, 33 trxus MTs , W, locked, belly up, some armor.

"If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time." Zig Ziglar
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Unread 01-09-2014, 11:41 AM   #24
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Well, I am a lawyer and I have drafted dozens of these waivers for paying clients, volunteer groups and club events. I just choose not to use them myself. Not because they don't work, but because i am a friendly person who has a lot of insurance and does not screw things up.
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Unread 01-09-2014, 12:33 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
Well, I am a lawyer and I have drafted dozens of these waivers for paying clients, volunteer groups and club events. I just choose not to use them myself. Not because they don't work, but because i am a friendly person who has a lot of insurance and does not screw things up.
Are saying you can construct a legit contract that can protect people for their own negligence or deny somebody the ability to call another into court?
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Schitzangiggles: We used to teach our children to fight evil, now we teach them that fighting is evil.

2001 TJ, 33 trxus MTs , W, locked, belly up, some armor.

"If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time." Zig Ziglar
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Unread 01-09-2014, 02:31 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Ross View Post
Are saying you can construct a legit contract that can protect people for their own negligence or deny somebody the ability to call another into court?
Yes. It is the law everywhere.
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Unread 01-09-2014, 02:36 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
Yes. It is the law everywhere.
You cannot write a contract that will hold up in court that violates law.
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Schitzangiggles: We used to teach our children to fight evil, now we teach them that fighting is evil.

2001 TJ, 33 trxus MTs , W, locked, belly up, some armor.

"If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time." Zig Ziglar
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Unread 01-09-2014, 02:38 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Ross View Post
You cannot write a contract that will hold up in court that violates law.
Here is an example of the form your own University of Missouri uses for its 4H participants:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a
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Unread 01-09-2014, 02:50 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
Here is an example of the form your own University of Missouri uses for its 4H participants:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a
If the University of MO knowingly causes harm or is negligent in their responsibility to one of those participants and they are harmed the Univ of MO or it representative will be held responsible, contract or not.

I have rentals in MO and MO law is good when it comes to common sense but even then I could not have a contract forcing my tenant to deal drugs out of my property. If I knowing create a living condition that is unsafe and somebody gets hurt I am still responsible regardless of what the contract states.

If the contract violates law how could it be enforced? The court is not going to order anybody to do anything against the law, even it if is written out in a contract. If there is negligence and or laws have been broken the court can hold the guilty responsible regardless of what your contract says.
NO contract makes you above the law.
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Schitzangiggles: We used to teach our children to fight evil, now we teach them that fighting is evil.

2001 TJ, 33 trxus MTs , W, locked, belly up, some armor.

"If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time." Zig Ziglar
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Unread 01-09-2014, 03:54 PM   #30
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All you can do is write your legislators. Every state has waiver and/or assumption of risk.
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