[sjd78]

I am considering buying a Diesel as a tow rig, probably new. Im not sure what is the best out there anymore and would like to hear opinions on the subject. What I do know is that Dodge has a new 6.7L, I know the 5.9L was a great diesel but not sure about the new one. If you have any input lets hear it. I know that the last 6.0L power stroke was a pile of junk compared to the 7.3L and now they have a new 6.4L but not sure how thats working out either. Then General Motors has their 6.6L, the last one they had lots of trouble with injectors. I guess Im just looking for any info or opinions anyone can give. Especially if you own one of the new diesels!

Thanks
Sean....

[Blthomas]

I don't own a diesel, but will chime in as I use my brothers, sisters, or my Dad's at times.

Sister has a 04' Dodge. 5.9L. Great motor, pulls like a mother, truck seems a bit cheap. No experience on the 6.7L, neighbor has one and thinks it's the cats ***.

Brother has a Duramax. Very comfy truck, pulls his trailer great, no known major issues as of yet to my knowledge, but I'm not super close to him, so he may have had some problems. 06' truck. When I drove it, pulled great, but I'm not a fan of the trucks looks.

Dad has and always has had the Ford's. The earlier 6.0's had problems. I'll stop there, the later 04' and up 6.0's seem to be somewhat reliable, several guys at work have them, they say they have no problems excpet one guy, his was bought back under lemon law, it was a 03'. He got the same truck but an 05' model nad had no problems. My pop's old 97' is a great truck. His new one, I think an 06' has had zero issues.

Some of the funk on the 6.4's is they are slow to spool. I dunno, never driven one. The whole tailpipe shooting fire thing, was IIRC due to leaky injectors, happended on a small number of trucks, and is/can be fixed. I believe they all have been taken care of.

Overall, it I had the coin and was looking new/new-sed, I'd go Ford for total package.

Strictly on motor, Dodge, the Cummings is a beast.

Just don't think much of the Chevy. Nice ride. Pulled great, just not impressed with the other part of the truck other than the motor.

FWIW, I don't own a diesel, these opinions are from family get togethers and splitting driving time on trips with all of them, or the like.

Best of luck.

[barry1me]

Originally Posted by sjd78

I am considering buying a Diesel as a tow rig, probably new. Im not sure what is the best out there anymore and would like to hear opinions on the subject. What I do know is that Dodge has a new 6.7L, I know the 5.9L was a great diesel but not sure about the new one. If you have any input lets hear it. I know that the last 6.0L power stroke was a pile of junk compared to the 7.3L and now they have a new 6.4L but not sure how thats working out either. Then General Motors has their 6.6L, the last one they had lots of trouble with injectors. I guess Im just looking for any info or opinions anyone can give. Especially if you own one of the new diesels!

Thanks
Sean....

If it was was me the only new diesel truck I would own is the Ford 6.4L. I have drove this truck and it is impressive to say the least. What I didnt like about it was a $47K price tag for a basic XLT supercrew 4x4 truck. Dodges are dodges. Yeah the cummins is a great engine, and most wont deny it. But the fact is the rest of the truck is off par with the ford and Chev. The Duramax is a great engine, and the allison isnt bad. I feel chevy trucks are cheaply made, not a fan of the interior, or the exterior. My brother has a 01 DMAX, had the injectors replaced at 96K miles and he has 170K on it now and it runs great.....though he is looking to rebuild the trans very soon. If you get on some of the diesel forums and read up on the new diesels you will see a lot of people that bought the new 6.7L cummins selling it and getting a older 5.9L. I havent heard of many people that have bought the new DMAX. I know I raced my dads buddy who has a new 07.5 DMAX with a superchip and I beat him 5 out ot 5 times. We raced from a dead dig, 2 wheel launchs, 4 wheel launchs and from a roll. Once again Im not a fan of the Chevy trucks. If it was me and you had your heart set on a new diesel....theres only one option if you want the best ford superduty. But I wouldnt buy one of the new diesel trucks. People are getting much less fuel mileage then the older trucks. I love my 05 6.0L...91K miles and pulls like a freight train. I have beat several cummins, and Dmaxs. I have gotten 20mpg hand calculated driving at 80mph cruise control. I wouldnt say the 6.0L is junk, it had a rough first year in production. Mine has suited me well and several of my friends have them and like them too. Fact of the matter is Ford sells more superduty diesels each year then the Cummins and DMax combined...

[ytodd]

Originally Posted by barry1me

Fact of the matter is Ford sells more superduty diesels each year then the Cummins and DMax combined...

Where can I look up that fact to verify. Seems a bit far fetched to say Ford new diesel sales is more than Dodge and Chevy/GMC combined.

Also, just to clarify, you beat a LMM Dmax (stock 365 hp, not counting the chip) with a 2005 6.0L PS (stock 325 hp) and beat it everytime? That sounds odd, can you provide more info about the two trucks?

[ytodd]

Originally Posted by sjd78

I am considering buying a Diesel as a tow rig, probably new....

I personally cannot justify the price tag any of the new trucks command. Shop around and you can find a nice truck already depreciated that is well maintained and save yourself a ton of money. I personally drive an 02 Dodge Ram 2500. I like the styling of the Ram for the 2nd gen years, and the truck is easy to work on with plenty of after market support (same with Ford and Chevy too). In my shopping (and through my family member's trucks) I found the following. It is simply my opinion, nothing more.

Chevy/GMC drive/ride the best, love the Allison.
Ford love the interior and fit and finish.
Dodge, love the solid front axle and the utilitarian style, and the inline 6 Cummins.

Shop around, drive a few and make a choice of your own accord. Truck fans are crazy loyal to their brand and the mud gets slung around alot. All in all.....you can't really make a bad choice with a later model diesel truck.

[That1guy]

I just read an hour long test on the new diesels. All were 1 tons with the DRW, crew cab, and auto trannies. On the tests they had empty and loaded runs that went from a flat grade to a 7%, 15%, and then a 30%. Basically what happened was the duramax won by a few seconds on most of the tests. All were with in seconds of each other and they said at the end was that all the trucks make lots of power and one isnt much better than the other. So drive them all and pick what you like. Here is the site. http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/2007/shootout/hdshootout1.html

[barry1me]

Originally Posted by ytodd

Where can I look up that fact to verify. Seems a bit far fetched to say Ford new diesel sales is more than Dodge and Chevy/GMC combined.

Also, just to clarify, you beat a LMM Dmax (stock 365 hp, not counting the chip) with a 2005 6.0L PS (stock 325 hp) and beat it everytime? That sounds odd, can you provide more info about the two trucks?

here ya gohttp://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=24077 My bad I was wrong the sell a little bit less then the competition combined...I will try to find something that shows how the 07 trucks are selling comparatively.

Super Duty continues to be the diesel leader. Ford Motor Company sold nearly as many diesel Super Duty’s in 2005 (242,545) as the combined total of diesel trucks sold by the competition (296,682). They are on track to do the same for 2006.

also my truck has a XCAL2 tuner (unknown HP...custom tuned) and the LMM had a DPFless exhaust, and a superchip (I believe its only 80HP)....The allison didnt like that chip at all. I drove it a few times and the trans went into limp mode once on me. I have 91K miles on mine and the torqshift is shifting just as good as it did when I got it....not to mention a lot of 4x launches and custom tuning for the last 10K miles.

[barry1me]

Originally Posted by ytodd

I personally cannot justify the price tag any of the new trucks command. Shop around and you can find a nice truck already depreciated that is well maintained and save yourself a ton of money. I personally drive an 02 Dodge Ram 2500. I like the styling of the Ram for the 2nd gen years, and the truck is easy to work on with plenty of after market support (same with Ford and Chevy too). In my shopping (and through my family member's trucks) I found the following. It is simply my opinion, nothing more.

Chevy/GMC drive/ride the best, love the Allison.
Ford love the interior and fit and finish.
Dodge, love the solid front axle and the utilitarian style, and the inline 6 Cummins.

Shop around, drive a few and make a choice of your own accord. Truck fans are crazy loyal to their brand and the mud gets slung around alot. All in all.....you can't really make a bad choice with a later model diesel truck.

I would agree with this comment. I wouldnt buy one of the new trucks either. There are way to many nice used trucks out there for a portion of the price. The only thing I would add is that the 03.5+ Fords have the torqshift, and that is as good (most would say much better) then the allison trans....check out the diesel boards...

[ytodd]

Originally Posted by barry1me

also my truck has a XCAL2 tuner (unknown HP...custom tuned) and the LMM had a DPFless exhaust, and a superchip (I believe its only 80HP)....

So your truck is not at all stock then? I figured there was more to the story. Your first comment only mentioned a mod to the LMM, and nothing about your truck. It seemed to imply that your stock truck whooped a mod'd LMM. Were all other aspects similar. IE: cab/bed sizes, SRW versus DRW etc etc. Any weight factors? I still just seem to find it hard to believe a LMM with 445 hp (stock 365 plus the 80 hp in mods) is getting soundly whooped by an 05 6.0 with a XCAL2 on it. Anything else missing from the equation? Don't get me wrong, any of these trucks can make big power, and driver factor certainly must be considered, but this sounds odd. Not trying to split hairs, but the mods do matter. I guess I am trying to say that if the point was intended to be that the Powerstroke is better, then compairng it stock to a stock Dmax should be the compairson. Not one mod versus another. I know the PS's can make tons of power and the SCT stuff is popular, but stock apples to apples the Dmax wins.

[barry1me]

Originally Posted by ytodd

So your truck is not at all stock then? I figured there was more to the story. Your first comment only mentioned a mod to the LMM, and nothing about your truck. It seemed to imply that your stock truck whooped a mod'd LMM. Were all other aspects similar. IE: cab/bed sizes, SRW versus DRW etc etc. Any weight factors? I still just seem to find it hard to believe a LMM with 445 hp (stock 365 plus the 80 hp in mods) is getting soundly whooped by an 05 6.0 with just an XCAL2 (an OBD-II flashing device) on it. Anything else missing from the equation? Don't get me wrong, any of these trucks can make big power, and driver factor certainly must be considered, but this sounds odd.

yeah I should have mentioned I wasnt stock....at the time when we raced I didnt have my intake, exhaust, or my stage 2 VG turbo. Just an XCAl2 with custom tuning i.e...a looney tune, guys have dynoed 420-430RWHP. Its pretty amazing what the 6.0l ford will do with a $400 tuner. But for GM's sake if someone wants to get an EFIlive for a DMAX, and a built trans the ford wont hold a candle to it. I have heard of several DMAX's at 500-550RWHP with just tuning....impressive to say the least. If you read around on any of the diesel threads the 6.0L runs real well considering the little bit of money it takes to do it. There are several guys with supercrew 4x4 with just a XCAL2 and custom tuning running 13.80's to 14.10's. Pretty good for a truck thats touching the scales of 7600lbs.

[ytodd]

Originally Posted by barry1me

If you read around on any of the diesel threads the 6.0L runs real well considering the little bit of money it takes to do it. There are several guys with supercrew 4x4 with just a XCAL2 and custom tuning running 13.80's to 14.10's. Pretty good for a truck thats touching the scales of 7600lbs.

Agreed, though I would comment that with a "little bit of money" the Powerstroke, Cummins and Dmax all produce good numbers.

I would be a tad skeptical of your last comment though. 13.80 is doable I imagine with the best reaction time and absolute best possible 60' time, but with no other mods the EGT's have to be through the roof and the stock head bolts are screaming. Not to mention you have to be right on the edge or running out of fueling.

[barry1me]

Originally Posted by ytodd

Agreed, though I would comment that with a "little bit of money" the Powerstroke, Cummins and Dmax all produce good numbers.

I would be a tad skeptical of your last comment though. 13.80 is doable I imagine with the best reaction time and absolute best possible 60' time, but with no other mods the EGT's have to be through the roof and the stock head bolts are screaming. Not to mention you have to be right on the edge or running out of fueling.

you can be skeptical all you want. for $400 the 6.0L is the fastest diesel on the road. You cannot make a cummins or a DMAX outrun it if $400 is your budget. Even if you could make the HP out of a cummins or a DMAX for the kind of money theres no way to put it to the ground w/o trans work. Now obviously if money is no object then its a different scenario. Im a diesel enthusiast and this is what I have seen. My egts with stock sticks and turbo are no more then 1400 in a quarter. I have ran a 14.08 with 33" MT's toolbox, and a half tank of gas at milan a few months back. So I would say on that being the only time I have been to the track that someone with a better setup truck, and much more experience would do considerably better then myself. Fueling is not an issue with stock sticks. Several people are using up to a 250cc sticks on stock fueling...I wouldnt recomend it though. A buddy of mine is running 210's and a fass 90 setup with a regulated fuel system and he has to spray a 825jet to clean up....he put down 650RWHP on a slipping trans. My buddy Dave anderson on thedieselgarage.com ran a 12.54 with a 03 4x4 supercrew with 35's...on stock headbolts and trans. Still hasnt puked yet. Hes running 200's same turbo as me, and spraying.

[tcourdin]

Originally Posted by barry1me

you can be skeptical all you want. for $400 the 6.0L is the fastest diesel on the road.

I agree. I run my 2004 6.0 with the superchips tuner set on high performance and that thing is crazy fast! I know, I know...I need to get the SCT. We have a 06 Mustang GT with a few mods that sits in the garage, I dont doubt my f-350 will smoke it in a race!

[ytodd]

Originally Posted by barry1me

...for $400 the 6.0L is the fastest diesel on the road.

That is the type of blanket statements I have issue with. There are too many variables in play to make your statement 100% accurate. Year, cab style etc etc. I never said anything derogatory about the 6.0, quite the inverse actually. Go back and read my posts. I just have heard a few fish stories in my time and forgive me but it is my prerogative to be skeptical. I am not saying you are lying, just that I am skeptical. I am not sure I would want to simply throw a SCT on my daily driver truck and beat on it to hit a sub 14 second quarter time. That said......I use my truck as a truck, I want it to drive nice, tow/haul well and deliver good performance. If I want to go fast I take a different tool out of the box. Like I stated before, the majority of truck owners are fiercely loyal......

[barry1me]

Originally Posted by ytodd

That is the type of blanket statements I have issue with. There are too many variables in play to make your statement 100% accurate. Year, cab style etc etc. I never said anything derogatory about the 6.0, quite the inverse actually. Go back and read my posts. I just have heard a few fish stories in my time and forgive me but it is my prerogative to be skeptical. I am not saying you are lying, just that I am skeptical. I am not sure I would want to simply throw a SCT on my daily driver truck and beat on it to hit a sub 14 second quarter time. That said......I use my truck as a truck, I want it to drive nice, tow/haul well and deliver good performance. If I want to go fast I take a different tool out of the box. Like I stated before, the majority of truck owners are fiercely loyal......

understood. Regardless ford, chevy, or dodge these trucks are all very reliable and still highly streetable with tuners on them. I actually pull my jeep with a tow aggressive file which is only 60hp more then stock and it does ok. Funny thing is I actually seem to get lower egts pulling at 60-65 with my stage 2 turbo on my looney file then my tow file. Cant figure it out to be honest with you, but it works. Im sure you could do some damage if you pulled a trailer and wanted to drive it like a race car. I drive (acclerate) pretty lightly when I pull something so EGTs are rarely an issue for me. Once I go larger injectors I will definatly have to worry about it.